How much do academics matter for prosp music maj?

College Majors Music Major
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Hi, I am a new parent here with no prior experience in music, music majors, music careers, or music college admissions. We are at a loss for this whole world, and could use some btdt.

My main question is how much does a kid who wants to go to music school/college in music need to keep pushing academically in normal school stuff?

We are homeschooling our sophomore son, set to graduate in 2024, partially because of his desire (amplified by covid shutdowns) to spend more time on music, partially because of our limited local HS. He has more access to multiple ensembles this way. He plays alto sax, all-state for last 3 years for both classical and jazz, but he loves jazz.
He also doubles on clarinet and flute, sings in choir and cantors at church. He takes private sax lessons and jazz vocal lessons. He is in an audition-chaired school band for wind ensemble+ jazz band and school choir.

As a 9th grader, he was far ahead of peers. Took the ACT, got a 34. He took DE/CC for college chem and econ, took AP calc BC + other normal honors classes. All As, but burned out on covid-induced online school at CC. This year, he barely cares about school. I am dragging him across the finish line in his courses. Still getting As for courses he hasn’t dropped, but pulling teeth to do it. Only thing he cares about is playing music and his part time job (where he has time to listen to music all the time.) Otherwise, distracted by music. He plays in on gigs with old guys’ big bands. He teaches other kids how to play sax and clarinet. His free time is spent in combos with friends. But get him to write his essay on Pride and Prejudice? Almost impossible.

He and I need to make a plan for junior year. By the end of this yr, he will have taken 3 units of English, 2 of FL, 2 of math, 2 sci, 3 history. He still needs 1 unit of bio, 1 of physics, 2 more math, 1 English. (I’ve given up on getting him to take 2 more years of FL–he won’t study, and he won’t do well.)

How many liberties can I take? It’s becoming increasingly clear that this kid has no mind for anything but music now, but he’s only 16, and that could change tomorrow. I’m trying to keep the options open. He doesn’t know what he wants to do for college, but from where I’m standing, I can’t imagine him not wanting to keep playing.

So how much does the rigor of his course work matter if he decides to go for a BM? Does he need all his junior and senior year to be honors/AP for non music? Can we forego AP exams for DE/CC, which is often perceived as less rigorous? He’d rather take 3 CC classes a term, and spend the rest of his time in his school bands, playing, working on auditions, gigs. Will that look like he’s not working hard? All he wants is to keep gigging, playing, humming, singing jazz.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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A music major needs to have a stellar audition and grades/academic rigor generally matter less for admission. A 34 ACT is pretty much good enough for all the music programs, BUT if you are chasing $$$, the more academic creds, the better. This is because it gives the university more pots to draw from —academic scholarship, musical talent, and financial aid. I do not think you need APs at all. Especially if he is thinking about a conservatory or non T20 school. I suppose this is a good question to ask you - what colleges would he be targeting? If he is looking at Harvard/NEC the answer is different than Oberlin or Berklee…

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I’ll second @compmom. If you can pay for anywhere he is accepted, and he’s targeting conservatories, grades matter less, but if cost is a factor and/or he is looking at schools with general education requirements, he needs to have academics for that. He needs to be able to meet the admissions requirements regarding coursework at his target schools. If cost is a factor, that 34 ACT and good grades become important for merit money, depending on the school. My son is a strong musician but he received more academic money than talent merit money at his acceptances, by a lot.

My son is at a college of music in a large university. He is a smart kid (good grades and high test scores but mostly hates academics). He wishes now that he had more AP and DE credit to use toward those general Ed classes. He doesn’t like them any more now than he did in high school.

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Thanks for the responses. Did your son pick a state school because of money or style or?

@compmom thank you as well. Truth is he isn’t targeting any place, because he doesn’t know what he wants, or why studying music in college is valuable. He’s interested in jazz mostly, but large vs small,urban vs rural, who knows. One private teacher told him study something else so he can afford a family; one told him move to a city with a music scene and get work first. He’s not mature enough yet for either of those paths, but has a couple years to go.

Absolutely money matters here, so it’s good to remind him/us of the reality that merit money can happen at the state school level. I don’t see my kid as driven enough to jump the hoops for a conservatory–he just doesn’t do what he’s told enough, goes his own way. I think if he chooses college in music it will be to find friends/peers more than any other reason.

Thanks!

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How fortunate for him to have all those musical opportunities! Your son may very well turn it around with academics in the next year and a half. Boys tend to figure things out a little later, and I’m speaking from experience here. My S22 will be attending a SLAC with a strong music program because he’s not 100% on a music major, but knows he wants to continue music at a high level. He ended up with a 3.4 gpa (heavily buoyed by electives and then P/F grading during Covid) and was TO and managed to get some great merit/talent awards. Hope that helps!

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Hmmmm…I think that you will find many music parents that can empathize with you.

Deciding on a music degree for some can be, kind of, like eating an elephant. You have to go one step at a time, have a lot of patience and faith that you’ll get through it. STILL, along the way, your kid is growing, learning and having some fun (hopefully)…and those skills are transferable…even if he decides to go the academic route.

I would recommend the following:

1.) Learn about different degrees related to music.

Read the following: Double Degree Dilemma essay (written by David Lane)

2.) Go to a few school websites and read about the requirments for different degrees. And yes, your kid may not be “interested”. Still, going into Jr year would be a good time for you to learn a lot about music degrees and other “related” degrees and start feeding some of it to him.

3.) Be aware that colleges understand that music is a very time-consuming pursuit. So many music degrees have lower academic standards. So loading up on APs may note be necessary. You may have to call music admissions to get that information (it’s not always on the school sites).

For students interested in music, you need to deal with 2 things: academic talent and music talent. Some kids want high excellence in both. Some kids only want excellence in music and are less concerned about academics. There are schools available for all types of music students.

My D chose a Big U with a conservatory built in (IU/Jacobs). Her academics would get her some money there (they would not have been high enough at some other schools). She wanted to put most of her time in music. Still she did want some academic study as well. But she did not want it to be so challenging, it would distract from music study.

My D could not “verbalize” this in sophomore or even junior year. It really took until senior year for her to figure it out…so we kept a pretty broad path open…but kept going around and around in circles on the balance between academics and music.

I think that you are right where you should be…asking a lot of questions. Now you just need to educate yourself and son on academic and music choices…and have faith it will work out.

Good luck!!

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I have a good friend who was at an even higher level, all region. He attended Berklee and played professionally. He’s now not involved with music at all.

I think your son is doing great, both in music and academically. He shouldn’t ignore academics to the point though that he doesn’t have a foundation for something else. It’s hard to make a living in music, especially in jazz. He should follow his dream, but have something to fall into if it comes to an end.

FWIW, he did say Berklee did a great job of letting the students know the realities of the industry, and giving them marketable skills to both help their music careers, but that would translate out to other jobs.

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Yes money was a part of the application and decision process for us. We needed to be able to see some chance we could afford his options without debt. He also had his own specific set of requirements. He wanted to teach so a strong music Ed program was important. He also plays multiple instruments and had some diverse interests (jazz being one) and did not want to have to give up his secondary instrument. He applied and was accepted for both voice and cello and decided after acceptance which to pursue as primary. I think one school may have accepted him only on voice. This definitely made his application process a bit different than many music majors.
He’s at University of North Texas. In the last week he has sung in two choir concerts, and played cello in another choir concert and a string quintet at someone’s recital. He has also sung in a vocal jazz ensemble with other students who were jazz instrumentalists and other various majors… He also accompanies on piano sometimes. Music school is full of opportunities to grow as a musician. It probably isn’t realistic for your son to think he can double major in voice and sax but he can continue to be a bit of a jack of all trades to some degree, if he wants to. Not every school lets you do this, but some do.
Also my son has been told all kinds of things about studying music, including that it’s a terrible idea—especially planning to teach in our state. Many colleges of music are in places with good music scenes. The good music colleges contribute to making the music scene good.
We’ve told all our kids they need to be able to pay their own bills after college and we also have worked hard to keep them out of college debt to make that prospect less daunting, especially for the music major.

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Your son sounds like a very bright and talented young man and reminds me of mine at 16. It can be a challenging time as many musically talented kids do not fit into the regimen of academics and many 16 year olds do not see the point of classes they are not interested in. Mine too dragged himself through 2 years of foreign language and was frustrated with all science classes because he was missing time in the practice room to be there. And I can’t even imagine how tough it would have been with remote learning!
Our philosophy was to keep as many doors open as possible with his program through high school. He knew that academic scholarship and music merit were both very much needed as options. He took high level but generally not AP classes, keeping his schedule where he could still practice 4 hours a day.
The path will become more clear over the next year or so. And your son will have many options. Mine has ended up in a conservatory with a large talent scholarship so really did not require academic merit, but he is happy that he kept a strong academic load and a high GPA. Because you never know if the path might change and you need another door to open.

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btw…my D is 29 and supports herself as a teacher/performing artist. She has many friend who do too…so it’s not all gloom and doom with a music degree. She earns her income as:

a teacher (private studio, private teacher for talented students at 2 high schools, co-runs a Sat program at the city music school and is a teaching artist for summer programs at theaters) - she did not do an education degree but has an MM so she can teach. Almost all performing artists teach in some capacity. It’s your bread and butter.

a performer (opera, MT and theater) in her city and regional work

as talent for commercial work (on-camera industrial, commercial and voice over work)

She was able to quit her “survival” job about a year ago after building up her network and business. She is hired 6 to 12 months out on a regular basis.

Being talented and smart are important. But you also need to be highly organized, entrepreneurial and able to hussle. AND being multi-talented helps a great deal. You can get more work that way. My D’s on-camera work pays very well…and was not something she anticipated doing…but she heard about it from friends when she was “hungry”…got herself an agent…and made it happen. She did stumble, fall, embarrass herself…change agents and did better the second time.

If some day, it all ends…I’m sure she would do well in sales. She seems unable to “give up”.

Think carefully about your kids ability to hussle, be flexible and entrepreneurial. Make sure he understands that.

Of course, getting a traditional job and gigging in his free time would be a great option too (my D has friends doing this). A BM is a bachelor’s degree and there are plenty of jobs that simply require a college degree.

I hope that this helps in some way.

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For what it’s worth: voice major son, studied classical voice outside school since 6th grade. Applied with a 79 average, 1230 SAT. Got in everywhere except Carnegie mellon and nyu. (Made third round before being cut at juilliard and curtis). Nowhere else cared about grades.

I feel bad now about being so hard on him about grades. Especially since he’s deciding between Peabody at Johns Hopkins and Manhattan School of Music.

Also, we discounted NEC for the liberal arts requirement. That kind of unrelated classwork is just no bueno doe him.

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Thanks for the replies.

I very much liked the eating an elephant analogy. As a homeschooling parent, I’m already in the guidance counselor and principal role, and the non music college admissions requirements run the gamut from the same as a traditional student to utterly absurd. (E.g. Oberlin wants not just a syllabus and textbook for each course, but a book list for every book read and samples for each course. My son laughed “all that proves is that you did a lot of work, not that I did!”)

So music school admissions in some ways seems simpler overall. Do the audition, kid. Hope you practiced. In jazz, especially, it looks like the things you play are all things he’s been playing for years already.

I can do some of the legwork for requirements in music schools/departments/programs too, but I’m not the one going, and not the one who has to live with the choices for those years. My getting invested on the process does not equal him invested.

I really liked hearing how one lady couldn’t verbalize this stuff. That’s my kid, and glad to hear that works itself out.

I am also on my third career (four, if you count homeschooling) so I get that paths change. I’m not one who thinks the purpose/ outcome of a bachelor’s degree should be a clear career goal or well paying job. But I’m also not willing to have him saddle himself with debt for the experience.

My biggest takeaway is to keep plugging away semester by semester. Glad to know that, because that I can do. Take science courses and math for another semester and do leave room for music, and encourage him to do well with what he cares about. Re evaluate each semester. Keep options open this year and it will get less cloudy, probably.

Thanks again!

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I was a stickler about grades too, but in the end they really didn’t matter. My son has known for a few years that he wanted to study performance and that entails long daily practice hours.

So he only took a few AP courses in junior and senior year and kept his schedule pretty light, allowing for practice time during early morning study hall in school.
In the end, he got in into all the schools he applied to (and waitlisted in one) - his GPA and SAT score were still above average but not stellar.
He was pressured quite a bit by the guidance counselor to take harder classes and load up his schedule, but he stood his ground and only signed up for what he needed to graduate.

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Something to think about as this progresses. My D was a high academic and took many AP courses and scored very high on SAT/ACT. This opened up opportunities to consider schools like Northwestern. In the end she is at a conservatory but since she tested out of so many college courses she does not have to take any gen-eds and even got out of her German requirement because of a national test score in a competition (which was basically a 5 on an AP). She didn’t need the academics to get into the school but now she has the freedom to spend more time on her craft and take on some extra responsibilities within her department. Also the discipline academics gave her has been a tremendous advantage in classes like music theory in terms of study habits. In the end academics may not “matter” but it can open so many more doors and opportunities within the music world itself.

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A stand alone music conservatory will not give much merit money for academics, but there are many fine schools of music that are a part of a general university which may award your child a large academic merit scholarship. That’s an advantage because it can be combined with music awards and does not disappear if he changes majors. Some examples include North Texas, FSU, MIami-Frost, Furman, USC-Thornton (though their policy appears to be shifting) and many state schools. Music is a long path, may involve expensive grad school, and will not pay much for a while. Anything you can do to pay as little for college as possible is good.

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We also homeschool and dd hopes to study music in college. Awhile back I found out about a great high school program through a post here on College Confidential. DD is now enrolled with North Atlantic Regional High School (NARHS) and we send her schoolwork to them yearly (with my grading and final grades) and they check over it and make a transcript for her. They are accredited by Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (MSA-CESS), one of the 7 accreditation bodies that colleges look for. I did this to keep track of her work more efficiently and also to make college/music school application process much easier and streamlined, to avoid sending in labs, trying to prove foreign language, etc. I love that you, the parent, still get to control the curriculum and even self-design some classes tailored to your teen’s interests and extracurriculars. I didn’t know about the program until the end of her freshman year, but I was able to go back and compile her schoolwork/tests to send it all in. It is quite common for families to do so. Their FAQs section and handbook has all of the details. Anyway, I thought that might be helpful to you…Also, PA Homeschoolers has AP classes that your son can take online if he chooses that path instead of community college. He sounds very bright and talented! Best of luck to him.

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Thanks for the info re NARHS. Perhaps some else will be helped by it. In my son’s case, such a program would prevent him from his current homeschool band opportunities, and those are how he’s eligible to participate in all state/all region competitions. (Someone went through a lot of work decades ago to allow homeschoolers who are in his homeschool band to be treated as a school and allowed into our state and regional music competitions, but there are strict rules.) His other music opportunities also tilt heavily to those who continue to participate in school band. Every state handles this stuff differently.

PA Homeschoolers is exactly what my kid hates–the zero or almost zero human interaction. He doesn’t have it in him to work like that. It’s part of why he went from being a STEM kid who likes music to a music kid who likes STEM. Music has been in person (even if the rules were stupid) nearly this whole time while his STEM outlets became worthless virtual things.

I agree it’d be better to be a strong academically inclined student, too. But I’m asking about the kid I have :wink:

Thanks!

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My son has decided to go to some private music school to study jazz by end of his 8th grade. He had a typical 9th grade curriculum but I told him that he didn’t need to take “standard” academic courses at very competitive public high school like his friends were doing from 10th grade. He was only 14 that time so I researched for him and found out that many young musicians who applied and accepted to top-level “free standing” private conservatories’ Jazz program went to “Performing Art” high school or even didn’t attend high school until 12th grade to make more time for music. I even checked curriculum at local performing arts high school to compare with his public high school which even didn’t offer Music Theory. My son’s case was not only getting accepted, but getting a big talent scholarship from private conservatories due to our financial reality so spending time and focusing on music made much more sense. He even didn’t consider taking SAT tests until October in his 12th grade because none of private conservatories in his list didn’t require. He needed to juggle all pre-screening video sessions at the same time. At the end, it worked financially in his case but if we could redo, I would ask my son to get 3rd year of Science and apply one public university with the best music program to lower the stress level in his 12th grade. It was very hard without financial freedom for 17-year-old and us.

Private conservatories especially in Jazz Studies usually requires these in application at the time of pre-screening auditions:

All of Ensembles / combos performed in
Summer music camps / programs / workshops
Awards and recognitions
**Outstanding soloist awards, Downbeat student awards, Young Arts, etc
Private teachers
Big name musicians whom performed with (when / where)
Repertoire (standard jazz tunes)
100 tunes would be a good goal but at least 50 tunes to memorize all, without reading music and improvise, sometimes need to be able to play in different key
Video or/and audio of original compositions or arrangements
**It would help pretty big even on jazz performance applications
Recommendation letters
**The most highest level ensemble director would be good AND private teacher

If music schools within university, they usually requires additional:

SAT or ACT (maybe still optional due to pandemic?)
Recommendation letter from academic teachers
**Usually English / history
Volunteer history
Extracurricular

After being invited to live auditions, it’s all about LIVE AUDITIONS! In most cases at smallish private conservatories, acceptances and money are decided by “openings” in school ensembles. Jazz saxophone is pretty competitive by numbers. Your son can double instruments at high level would help.

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Jejeje, thank you. your comment about 50-100 tunes was very apt. Son has been working on prepping for a gig with a jazz vocalist. So though he knows 50 by heart and asked her to pick from them, she picked 15 but all in different keys (based on how she will sing) that he doesn’t have memorized at all. I will keep all these things in mind. Eating the elephant one bite at a time.

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Hello OP - I am catching this now. I have a kid that was homeschooled though he did DE his last 2 years of high school. He was also very academic, started taking the ACT through talent search in 6th grade, had stats to apply anywhere. He is doing a dual degree at a top 15 public University. He was adament about dual degree, he didn’t apply to any straight conservatories. And merit money was important to us for undergrad.

Anyway - he did great with academic admissions and merit money. And he stuck to DE classes, did not do AP. DE is free and accessible for ready kids in our state, it was a natural choice for us. He graduated with about 35 or so credits. He still did some academics offline that maybe we didn’t want to commit to the time of DE classes but I wanted him to have, but did a ton of music and extracurricular stuff those last 2 years. So anyway, the 3 DE classes is almost exactly what he did and that worked great. Actually, my high school junior is doing similar and is also interested in music programs. I will say, he tended to get good academic OR good music merit money, not necessarily both at the same school. I do think many schools are weighing their funds vs. what it takes to get a student on campus, etc. Like he had a teacher tell him straight after a great sample lesson, I’d love to work with you but we just don’t have the funding this year to get you here, you will get much better offers. Consider us for grad school.

I will say my oldest was kind of a non-traditional performance degree applicant. We could not afford need only schools at all so he did not apply to any. I think being a multi-interested, highly academic student hurt his odds with some music teachers but he was auditioning a very popular path. Some music teachers even at schools that broadly advertise and tout dual degree options were not excited about THEIR students doing it. Finding a flexible, nerd appreciative teacher made all the difference. He is at a top 15 public in a studio with about 2/3 grad students and got a great offer and courting from this school so it was clear they wanted him there and he’d be treated well. It was not definitely somewhere we initially imagined working well so it’s good to keep an open mind going into process.

Anyway, I think you are on a really good path as you describe it. And if your student is very singularly musically oriented, music teachers appreciate that! I’m always reticient to put out too many personal details, I am open to PMs. Good luck!