How much do colleges count the SAT foreign language?

Test Preparation
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<p>"I used to be impressed by you Xiggi, but I frankly, I think you have gotten a bit ahead of yourself on this one -- speaking out of both sides of your mouth without really knowing diddly squat. I am truly disappointed. Why don't you simply stay away from topics about which you really know nothing about other than "heresay" from only one perspective?"</p>

<p>1988, I have no idea how I would be speaking on both sides of my mouth. Did I contradict myself in this thread? </p>

<p>As far as knowing diddly squat, please feel free to correct my remarks and point out where they might be wrong instead of moving the discussion towards a less relevant direction. </p>

<p>The question was, "How much do colleges count the SAT foreign language" and by extension "SAT foreign language by natives." </p>

<p>If you have any relevant information about how the Chinese Subject Test is viewed by colleges outside California, please let us know. In the meantime, I stand by my conclusions that it is mostly used in California and that the majority of test takers are native or quasi native speakers. I also know that Chinese native speakers cannot use the SAT Chinese to meet the SAT Subject Tests requirements of Harvard. </p>

<p>Further, if you have information that disputes that the SAT Chinese hardly represents a HIGH SCHOOL subject, feel free to provide it. As an example. while fewer than 24,000 -of out close to 50,000,000- American students in grades seven through 12 study Chinese, more than 1 million students learn French. Also, singling out a state, in Connecticut, about 70,000 students are learning Spanish, while about 300 are learning Mandarin Chinese. </p>

<p>I do not dispute the growing importance of Chinese and the validity of teaching it in American high schools. However, you can hardly offer evidence that this is a subject representative of a typical American High school. According to the Foreign Service Institute, which trains American diplomats for the State Department, it takes 1,300 hours to achieve proficiency in speaking Chinese. Where will you find this time to squeeze 1300 hours in a HS classroom. And, it is a high school curriculum that the SAT2 is supposed to be measuring. </p>

<p>Further, in 2005, there were just above 5,000 SAT2 Chinese presented. The mean score was 758 and the 75th percentile was 800 and the 25th percentile a ... 750. Yet, the same group of testers scored below 550 on the SAT verbal. Would it not be a "decent" speculation that the majority of the test takers were not native-english speakers? </p>

<p>Do you want to know the other high SAT2 mean scores: Korean at 752 and Japanese at 687 - with similar patterns of small testers' group and SAT verbal scores of 533 and 565. The next SAT2 score is Math II at 670. However, here the 90,000 plus testers scored their SAT Verbal is at 638. </p>

<p>So, while I recognize -again- not knowing the exact composition of the Chinese test, I'd be glad to compare our respective understanding and knowledge of the statistics and impact of the SAT and SAT Subject tests on admissions. </p>

<p>Let's us see who truly knows diddly squat about the subject at hand.</p>

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<p>I think that there shouldn't be a Chinese SAT II...</p>

<p>I don't know any schools that teach Chinese...that is just here I guess?</p>

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<p>Xiggi: I see...yah, sure, fine... Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Scandaless: It seems to me it could very well be construed as "drop dead easy" for heritage speakers. For those learning it as a completely foreign language, that is more a question of the quality of teaching. Think about it...learning a language as replete with cultural and other nuance as Chinese for a foreigner. If English was not your native language and Western culture wasn't your home culture, try reversing the role (if applicable).</p>

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<p>continuing: therefore, those Chinese who don't score as well in the verbal and writing sections of our SAT I vs. non-heritage students studying Chinese and sitting for the SAT II Chinese with listening...they may not be that different :-)</p>

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<p>Nalcon: the thread concerns: "How much do colleges count the SAT foreign language?" </p>

<p>My point is simply, viz-a-viz Chinese w/ Listening, the test takes into account the relative difficulty of the language (especially for non-heritage learners) compared with the typical (emphasis "typical") Indo-European languages native-born American students of Western heritage usually study in high school. Thus, while the test may be extremely easy for the majority of students who take it, many of whom have directly or indirectly been exposed over a longer period to some aspects and nuances inherent in the language, for those who have not had such exposure, the challenges of learning Mandarin are far greater. Since mostly heritage students take this test, as is reflected in the percentile ranks vs. other SAT Subject Test Percentile Ranks in Languages with Listneing, no wonder it is deemed easy-peasy to many of them. All I am pointing out is, for those who are not exposed indirectly or directly through heritage or otherwise, this is an extremely challenging language for non-heritage learners -- far more so than French and Spanish for westerners (I have studied French, German, Mandarin, Latin and Linguistics fwiw). Therefore, colleges will count the SAT foreign languages (the topic of this thread) in light of who is taking it. There is a College Board table called the SAT Subject Tests in Languages - Total Score and Subscore Percentile Ranks for Students Who Have Studied a Language in High School. This table specifically breaks out the scores of students with two to four years of study in a particular language. I don't have it handy but The College Board breaks this out separately from their table on SAT Subject Tests in Languages -- thus there is an attempt at making a distinction between heritage and non-heritage language learners (in all the College Board language tests) in the testing scores.</p>

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<p>If you studied French.. c'est vis a vis</p>

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<p>hm interesting, i didn't know SAT2 Chinese was considered such a BS test for native speakers. I'm taking it in Nov bc one of my colleges recommends a foreign lang SAT2 but I have not had a school foreign language in 2 years (spanish 3, not able to take 4/AP bc conflicts). so, i thought taking Chinese would be better than not having any language SAT2. </p>

<p>i came to the USA when i was 2yo, so i learned reading/writing at Chinese School on and off during my childhood until high school. and actually, since i speak dialect to my parents - which can be /very/ different, listening to Mandarin requires some concentration for me. it also occurred to me that altho i can prolly do those fill in the blank sentences, a non-native who learned Chinese would be better at understanding why a certain word would go there, the grammar/mechanics behind it. (Ive never bothered to learn to use the 3 forms of the word "de" correctly) So I can tell by listening, just like Americans can tell errors on the SAT Writing - whose incorrect idioms (usually prepositions) I completely fail to notice.<br>
just some input on my part. i havent not seen a complete sat2 chinese test apart from the practice on collegeboard.</p>

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<p>TheRestIsSilence: depends on the dialect, I guess. One of my friends is from Szechuan and her dialetic is practically unintelligible to me (Hebei native) but she says she can understand Beijing-ish mandarin fine. It's just that they use different terms sometimes.</p>

<p>I wouldn't worry about depending on listening to tell whether something's right or not. Native speakers probably have an advantage in that, especially in the little points. (i.e. the prepositions that always kill me in French) Knowledge of colloquials instead of bread and butter grammar seems to be more important on SATs.</p>

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<p>you guys think too much, just take it easy.
this test is a wavier like what cy_sunset said.
I took the test because I dont have 3 years left to take other foreign language. And someone says the only way to fix it is to take both SAT lang and TOFEL.
but now I am in AP english and I think to take TOFEL is not necessary anymore.
But for those non-native, you guys should wait to take AP Chinese which I hear is coming up next year. Don't take this stupid test.
And compare to other lang tests, it is the same thing, French people can obviously get 800 on French, but the point is that Chinese native people is more than non-native in the test, so the curve just goes horrible. French native people who takes the French test is less the non-native, so the curve goes well.</p>

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<p>Chibifry: D'accord...je le sais. However, we are speaking in English here, n'est ce pas? :-)</p>

<p>Seraphthrone: I'm glad you raised AP Chinese, which I understand is slated to be available commencing with the high school classes of '07. In the meantime, unfortunately, students in the preceding classes have no choice but to take the present SAT II if they wish to at least provide some insight into their level of proficiency or prove any proficiency whatsoever. IMHO something is better than nothing. For those intending to continue their study of foreign language in college, or prove proficiency in order to place out, there are the respective departmental placement exams.</p>

<p>Of note is that many (if not most) college Chinese departments offer different Chinese classes for those who are non-native speakers (although many of the students in these classes are of Chinese "heritage") and those who are "heritage" speakers or others who may speak but do not know how to read/write. This speaks more to the complexity of learning Chinese -- which I noted in an earlier post.
Unfortunately though, there are always some folks who have had exposure to the language who take the course track designed for non-heritage or first time learners and are looking for an easy "A" or whatever. However, this isn't limited to this subject, and it really isn't my intention to take the discussion so far off the OPs topic.</p>

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<p>1988 you are right, anyway I just wanna know what this test worth.</p>