<p>One of my kids took AP World Hist and the other took AP USH. Both took the corresponding SAT-IIs with minimal prep other than what they did for the APs. Both did quite well.</p>
<p>S2’s pre-IB Bio class aligned very well with the SAT-II Bio. Unfortunately, he missed the multiple times the teacher said “you really ought to take the SAT-II in June…” until three days before the exam. It’s a shame; he would have done well. He took AP Enviro soph year, but felt he’d have to re-study too much general Bio to make it worth his while. He’s taking HL Bio senior year, but won’t have covered enough of the course to take the SAT-II this fall. So, if that keeps a school off his list, that’s his issue, not mine.</p>
<p>“There are some SATII that are not comparable to the AP curriculum for the same subject, and I have heard that Latin SAT II is one of those. If Menlopark mom has a child who has taken both, she’ll know…”
Son took the Latin subject test in Dec of his Jr year, adfter2.5 years of Latin and took the AP test at the end of his Sr year… He scored 750 on the subject test and received a 4 on the AP test.</p>
<p>He should not be afraid of taking the Latin subject test if he scores well [4-5] on the AP test, but he will have to bone up on his Latin before taking the test in Dec. But will he be a SR then? Dec is too late for submission of test results for next years seniors. [I couldn’t find any reference in your prior posts saying what grade he is in now]</p>
<p>^Agree with Tokenadult unless you are applying early. Check the websites of the schools. They will often tell you something like–“Dec tests are the last scheduled tests accepted” or something like that.</p>
<p>I don’t think my son applied anywhere that Dec scores weren’t okay for the regular round. The truth is that while they spend most of January opening envelopes and sorting folders. They don’t start reading on January 1st.</p>
<p>Just to clarify by comparing apples to apples: according to the College Board, among 2008 college-bound seniors who had taken any SAT II tests, a score of 750 in Lit would put you at the 94th percentile of those taking the test, while a score of 750 in US History would put you at the 91st percentile, and a score of 750 in Math Level 2 would put you at the 77th percentile.</p>
<p>But these percentile figures are somewhat misleading. It’s a highly self-selecting group that takes any SAT IIs at all since they’re required at only a handful of elite colleges, and the group who take any particular SAT II subject test tends to be an even more highly self-selecting group of students who are strong in that area. A lot more kids are strong in math than in literature; consequently, more take and more do well in the most challenging math test. That doesn’t mean the math test is “easier” in any absolute sense, only that our gene pool, culture, and schools produce more kids who are really strong on math than on literature.</p>
<p>At d’s prep school, only a tiny minority of apps can use December test score - there has been a huge shift to earlier applications.</p>
<p>In engineering, more and more schools are stressing early applications, formally (ed,ea, or Olin’s December 1 for everyone ) or informally, like Umichigan.</p>
<p>D’s prep school encourages students take the all subject tests as soon as they finish the course that will prepare them for the subject matter. Tests taken in September or October are 4 or 5 months cold - ancient history. Result: students are pushing their qualifying classes into Junior year and taking subject tests in May and June, when the information is fresh.</p>
<p>^I agree May and June of junior year are by far the best time to take the subject tests, but sometimes it doesn’t work out that way. Literature and languages and perhaps math are the ones least likely to suffer by being taken in the fall of senior year.</p>
<p>It also depends on the student’s state of readiness. After taking a good look at the subject test prep book for physics, after having taken AP physics C, S decided he wasn’t quite ready for Saturday and took just the US history test. Then again, he’s a very good judge of his state of readiness. Technically, he could have taken the Math 2 test at the end of freshman year, after taking honors trig/math analysis. He decided to pass and took it the end of sophomore year, following completion of AP calculus BC. He owned that test and scored 800. </p>
<p>When it comes to math/science, I discovered long ago he knows what he’s doing. So even though the plan was to complete all these tests junior year, he’ll have one more subject test to go in October.</p>
<p>Math 2 is also an extremely broad test, which covers a range of concepts taught differently across the states. For example, depending on the Test Form, M2 can include several detailed questions from statistics. Anyone also taking AP Stats will find such questions easy, but kids taking a standard math curriculum will have to skip them (z-score not taught in our PreCalc class).</p>
<p>I think 200-800 scale is insufficient for such subject tests. In case of Math 2, 10% of the test takers with 800 score are unable to demonstrate their true ability. Isn’t it impossible to put few very difficult problems and extend the highest score to 900 or 1000.
Some of good scorers can demonstrate their ability by taking AIME but it is not available for all students. Hm.</p>
<p>^^Under that logic, the 800 is insuffficient for the SAT and the 36 is insufficient for the ACT. Standard IQ tests for example, cannot differentiate the gifted from the highly gifted to the extremely gifted. To separate that cohort requires a test for that gifted group alone, but the masses would clearly “fail”.</p>
<p>And, wrt math 2 – it is not designed to measure the acumen of someone taking advanced calculus in HS – its purpose is to cover a broad range of topics taught in a typical high school precalc class (college prep level, not even honors).</p>
<p>Thank you, bluebayou. I am becoming clearer.
Many selective colleges have to choose students from a pool of almost perfect scorers . Although test scores are not sole factor of admission, it may be better for everyone if there would be nationwide tests measuring higher level of academic achievement available to all higher achievers. There are many things other than tests that show students’ ability. But it seems to me evaluating those for admission purpose is sometimes too subjective.</p>
<p>Late to this old thread, but just wanted to mention: Home-schooled DS scored 800 on Latin SAT II. No AP courses whatsoever. But he’s been studying Latin forever. This year, 800 means 96th percentile.</p>
<p>Not sure it helped him one bit with admissions, though. It certainly didn’t seem to do anything much for merit scholarships.</p>
<p>An 800 gets you in the 96th percentile - huh?! Gee whiz. Does this mean that many students scored well so that there wasn’t a 99%-tile?</p>
<p>Exactly. If 4% of the students scored 800, that would put them at the 96th percentile, right? Read bluebayou’s description above. The test isn’t attempting to tease out the very top students.</p>
<p>I disagree. This would force the standardization of above-AP-level academic opportunities.</p>
<p>For example, if there was a Math III Subject Test, someone would have to decide on the curriculum that it covers. Should it include multivariable calculus, linear algebra, statistics with calculus, two of these three things, all three, or other things I haven’t thought of because it’s only 7:30 in the morning? Whatever the decision, students would then be locked into taking those specific courses.</p>
<p>I think the current informal situation is better. If a student takes a course (let’s say in math) that goes beyond the usual high school norms, it’s reported on the student’s high school transcript (or, if the student took it at a college, on the transcript the student has that college send). The record of having taken this course is one of a multitude of things that can make an applicant more interesting. And at the admissions stage, that’s all that matters. (Later, after the student is admitted, there can be complicated questions about placement, but those don’t matter during the admissions decision.)</p>
<p>Maybe AMC10, AMC12 scores can help for the applications if the student is really interested in Math. The score can truly distinguish math talented students, competition level math are much harder than regular standardized tests. But for regular (all rounded) top students in general it’s not helpful. BTW, AMC tests are getting popular.</p>