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It’s not lottery thinking. It’s called the American dream. According to Wisegeek, it has been in existence since 1600s
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<p>So pilots today are smarter, better educated work just as hard and make less money…</p>
<p>Take that and expand this to society and you can see why the middle class is struggling and income inequality books are starting to become best sellers.</p>
<p>@DrGoogle, I guess we disagree on what the American Dream is. I am pretty sure that my family dreamed it and lived it, but it involved many years of hard work and did not include going from welfare to billions at an early age. </p>
<p>The reason that I referred to it as lottery thinking is that, as in the lottery, a handful of people go from a $1 ticket to win multiple millions. The lottery is not scalable, just as what happened with WhatsApp is not scalable. </p>
<p>I think perhaps we’re talking past each other. </p>
<p>The term lottery means it’s pure luck. Yes there were some luck involved but there were hard work, perseverance, and a lot of things must have happened for it to be a reality and that’s what I think for the lack of a better term, something so wonderful about USA or perhaps just California only. If you dare dream it can happen in America, still the land of opportunities, otherwise why would so many people risk their lives to come here?</p>
<p>"So pilots today are smarter, better educated work just as hard and make less money…</p>
<p>Take that and expand this to society and you can see why the middle class is struggling and income inequality books are starting to become best sellers."</p>
<p>No, I can’t take a tiny segment of the population and correlate their experiences to the entire society. Though it may be true that the middle class is struggling, the airlines are an odd example that you really can’t compare with many other groups. One thing, is that the airlines as a whole have been struggling for a long time, yet many manage to go bankrupt and just keep hanging on. They use their bankruptcies to gain huge wage concessions, shed labor contracts, and of course give management huge bonuses (for their awesome cost saving measures, and besides, they need to maintain the great talent that put them into bankruptcy). Yet they still have many thousands of applicants, as there has been virtually no hiring for years, so the people that have even a shot at getting an interview have to have top qualifications. The age 65 change, 9/11, recession, reduced capacity has made demand very low. There are few jobs available. Supply and demand.</p>
<p>I see the economy as being one where people who have money invested in the market have become very prosperous, and some who have real estate in hot areas have made a lot of money. There are some fields that are very well paid, and many that aren’t. Yet companies are making huge profits, and not sharing them with employees. Top management and shareholders make out big time. Large companies pay next to nothing in taxes, and small businesses pay too much.</p>
<p>Instead of buying books about income inequality, there are more effective things that can be done. Like tax code simplification, and treating all income the same. But that isn’t going to happen as long as politicians control the tax code.</p>
<p>You cant expand? Of course you can. Do you think what is happening in the airline industry is an isolated event? It’s not. </p>
<p>68 percent of the capital gains goes to 1 percent of the people. 80 percent of the people dont have to woory about capital gains because they dont have much of any. :)</p>
<p>That includes people who invest in stocks and real estate.</p>
<p>You talked about working hard. </p>
<p>Do the people who are the wealthier people really work harder than everybody else? Really? </p>
<p>Or is it the fact that their money is working for them? If I have to choose between working hard and tye money doing the work…I am going to take the money. ;)</p>
<p>I think from your post, you actually agree.</p>
<p>(my opinion) There was more opportunity to make it 30 years ago than there is today…</p>
<p>This tax simplification thing is not going to happen. It is just a talking point. The talk of cutting corporate tax rates and cutting loopholes is not going to happen. Because so many corporations dont pay those quoted tax rates.</p>
<p>There are many corporations, I mean people, that dont pay any income tax. Why would they want to cut rates and cut out loopholes when they pay little income taxes now? </p>
<p>They don’t want to cut tax rates and cut loopholes. It is just another talking point.</p>
<p>Buying books about income inequality and then reading these books educates people so they can make intelligent decisions. </p>
<p>I am going to stop now because this is a great thread and I dont want it shut down. Dadinator’s post p@@@@@ me off because what he wrote is a con…and people buy that con…</p>
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<p>Absolutely! I graduated from college a bit longer ago (~40 years ago), but I just knew that I was going to have a succession of jobs each of which paid better than the previous one. I knew that if I didn’t spend every penny I made, I’d have assets that would grow over time. </p>
<p>Things back then were much more positive. I might have already mentioned it, because it is such a profound memory for me, but my father once very proudly and happily told me that he had paid more in taxes that year than he had made gross the previous year. He didn’t begrudge the taxes he paid but rejoiced that this country that accepted him was a place where honest hard work, tenacity, and some luck could increase his income to a point where he could have such an increase from one year to the next. </p>
<p>My kids will likely do fine, but I don’t think they can have the assurance that I did. </p>
<p>I just have to add this cartoon. The con I talked about earlier has been goung on for a very, very long time…</p>
<p><a href=“File:The Way to Grow Poor, The Way to Grow Rich -- Currier & Ives 1875.jpg - Wikipedia”>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Way_to_Grow_Poor,_The_Way_to_Grow_Rich_--_Currier_%26_Ives_1875.jpg</a></p>
<p>Which side of the cartoon is it easier to get rich? </p>
<p>I am going to take the balloon side. :)</p>
<p>Cool cartoon, dstark – but what is rag money?</p>
<p>Arabrab,</p>
<p><a href=“Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions”>http://www.answers.com/topic/what-is-rag-money</a></p>
<p>Also some type of jobs are slowly disappearing regardless of how hard one works. </p>
<p>“You cant expand? Of course you can. Do you think what is happening in the airline industry is an isolated event? It’s not.”</p>
<p>I can’t expand what is happening in one industry to claim that it’s happening to everybody else. Even though I’m in that industry, I have not been affected as most people have. Flattening wages and benefits have affected many, but not everyone. There are still some very prosperous industries and occupations. </p>
<p>“68 percent of the capital gains goes to 1 percent of the people. 80 percent of the people dont have to worry about capital gains because they dont have much of any. :)”</p>
<p>You have to invest in something to have capital gains. If you don’t invest, your gains are zero.</p>
<p>“You talked about working hard. Do the people who are the wealthier people really work harder than everybody else? Really?”</p>
<p>I would not generalize that. Many people who are wealthy have worked very hard. Unless they happen to have family wealth, I doubt they have become rich by being lazy.</p>
<p>“Or is it the fact that their money is working for them? If I have to choose between working hard and the money doing the work…I am going to take the money. ;)”</p>
<p>That is certainly the smart way to make money. </p>
<p>“I think from your post, you actually agree.”</p>
<p>Perhaps, but I’m not going to admit it. :D</p>
<p>“This tax simplification thing is not going to happen. It is just a talking point. The talk of cutting corporate tax rates and cutting loopholes is not going to happen. Because so many corporations don/t pay those quoted tax rates.”</p>
<p>It shouldn’t be just a talking point. It seems to be an obvious solution to many things people perceive as unfair, and a way to raise taxes to cut the deficit.</p>
<p>“I am going to stop now because this is a great thread and I dont want it shut down. Dadinator’s post p@@@@@ me off because what he wrote is a con…and people buy that con…”</p>
<p>His posts seemed pretty innocuous. Though we all have our triggers. Just ask my kids.</p>
<p>Con…</p>
<p>I have no idea what he wrote that irritated you, but I guess I’d better not ask. Don’t want to start any trouble around here!</p>
<p>Is income inequality a red herring? Is it really relevant to the everyday lives of most people what the .0001% make? Has the standard of living of middle America actually gone down, or is it that following paparazzi accounts of the uber wealthy has made their expectations go up a lot? </p>
<p>Back when I was growing up, I don’t recall it being the norm for families to eat out all the time. The air travel market was regulated so hardly anyone could afford to fly. Cars didn’t have all the amenities they have today. People didn’t take out second mortgages to remodel their kitchens and bathrooms to look like something in Architectural Digest. Cellphones were the size of bricks and only Gordon Geckos had them. Parents didn’t pay for SAT coaches. </p>
<p>Do average Americans really have less today? Or do they just want more?</p>
<p>My mom never worked outside the home and my dad had a middleclass job. He paid for 21 years of college for his 5 kids. 2 private and 3 State schools. Some of us had small loans but no one had loans that were more than 50% of their first years salary upon graduation.
There is no doubt in my mind that college was more affordable. </p>
<p>Tom1944, wow 21 years! THAT is impressive.</p>
<p>GMT plus7- I like your observations. There is soooooo much more to “want” now that some folks decide they are “needs”. This is something our family struggles to remember.</p>
<p>College was far more affordable, and people didn’t have to go to the fancy private schools with hot tubs in their dorms. My parents paid for the first quarter of community college, and I paid for the next two. The Air Force picked up the tab for the next three years, but I could have paid for it on my waitressing salary if needed. Not at the private school they sent me to, but at our local University, no problem</p>
<p>The family business that supported us growing up (including many other relatives also) is a small fraction of its original glory and my Dad didn’t have a college degree. Big business (like Walmart) has not only put many of these family businesses out of business, but prevented new ones from forming. Engineering careers are not the same as when I graduated 30 years ago when big companies had pensions and appeared to offer jobs for life and included educational reimbursement. Many engineers have to be on contract and are subject to the cyclical market. I think the opportunities for someone with no college degree are very small and even the opportunities for people with college degrees is not anywhere near as promising.</p>
<p>I think the majority of us on this thread are solidly middle to upper class, however that is defined now.</p>
<p>The concerns within our country in general is to continue to build up the middle class.</p>
<p>I think people can take all the information and adapt it to their particular likes to decide how to have their nest egg work for them in retirement.</p>
<p>For the next generation, building up Roth IRAs early helps them with the time value of money working for them. Keeping in check with the paradigm changes to continually make smart money decisions.</p>
<p>‘Wealthy’ people in the past had lots of hired household help, as they do now. </p>
<p>Eating out - sometimes picking up prepared food or semi-prepared meal is cheaper than I could make at home with the ingredients. However again people just need to be smart with their money.</p>