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<p>We are just expressing it differently. You say the assessment is 87% of the value, I say that the value is 1/.87 of the assessment. You say potato, I say potahto :)</p>
<p>That 15% cushion is where they would get me, maybe, but I think the attorneys work on consignment (e.g., 2x annual save), so if I’m going to be here another half dozen years …</p>
<p>Yes. That is why I would end the use of property tax to pay for schools. It has no chance of ever being the case though because in towns like Bob’s they are willing to pay high property taxes for schools and would never want their school budgets limited by the amount the State would allocate on a per pupil basis. In the 30 Abbott districts the State already pays so the property taxpayers do not but the amount they receive would have to be slashed if we ever went to a student wide everyone gets x system.</p>
<p>So the proposal would have no support from wealthy or poor towns. It would only save the middle class towns.</p>
<p>Tom1944, so with these property taxes, many people are forced to sell their homes and get out of NJ? Are you seeing large amounts of people leaving the state?</p>
<p>What would you replace property taxes with to fund the schools so the budgets don’t have to be cut? Or if you ruled NJ, would you cut the budgets?</p>
<p>I support a very transparent system of as low a rate and as broad a base as possible. So I would have a flat income tax with limited credits and deductions (basically none) although I would not tax income until it reached a certain amount. At least the initial $20,000 would not be subject to tax. I would also have a low rate sales tax but it would be on everything nothing would be exempt.</p>
<p>I would have no corporate tax or any tax paid by employers for having employees. I have no issue with user fees or sin taxes so I would have them. Most revenue would be raised by the income tax and the sales or vat if I could dictate.</p>
<p>Bob they do work on consignment. I also believe I am overassessed but fall in the 15% range of a recent comp sale so I have not pursued an appeal.</p>
<p>dstark I just saw the cut budget part. I would most likely not do certain things so yes I could see budget cutting. I would be up front about it though which is what we do not have. We get promises of budget control with the same services and no clear way to pay for them beyond phony accounting. I would say we are not doing this and here is what we will save. I would end all rebate programs for example.</p>
<p>Tom1944, I like your ideas. I usually do. :)</p>
<p>We send roughly a third of our property taxes to Newark. </p>
<p>Newark per-pupil cost (in 2010) was ~23k, Millburn was ~18k. It gets complicated by the different special needs numbers, youth at risk, etc., but it is eye-opening that more is spent on a failing school system (although much improved) than on a thriving one. </p>
<p>While we can afford to stay, when I look at what I’m getting for my money, all I’m left with is proximity to NYC and Newark Airport. Pretty good bagels, also :)</p>
<p>I agree Bob however the amount spent in Milburn and Mountain Lakes and Princeton drive the amount spent in the Abbott districts. The court basically ruled that the kids in those districts are to have a thourough and efficient system of education and if the best most staple districts in the State, districts without the overwhelming problems faced by students in the 30 Abbott districts need to spend x amount than it is reasonable to expect those districts need to spend x plus to have any chance to achieve the same goal.</p>
<p>That is why we have this out of control ever rising per student cost.</p>
<p>Hope the elections came out OK in everyone’s areas, including any special amendments.</p>
<p>I have a bone scan today. The outcome will hopefully rule out spread of cancer. I have been on the ‘good side’ of 50/50 long term survival; stage IV goes down to 20% long term survival. Friend with similar cancer who is in stage IV is doing fairly well with active disease two years out (the other one died in a few months after spread). But certainly hope and pray to not go down her path. Prayers appreciated.</p>
<p>We have many on this thread who have been thinking about retirement and all the planning. It does help to think things out and have a good financial plan. </p>
<p>HS friend just retired last week, so it will be interesting to hear how he makes the transition to retirement.</p>
<p>Tom, you obviously know much more about this than I do, and I generally agree with you. My older daughter taught literacy in Philly for a year, and her descriptions were disheartening. I am not someone who is reluctant to reach a little deeper into his pocket to help someone who deserves a helping hand. I’m not afraid of the L-word; I’m an old fashioned bleeding heart liberal who believes that my part of the deal, considering how lucky I’ve been, is to help those who weren’t as lucky. If the money were getting to the kids, I’d hush myself. Newark is probably cleaner than Philly, but not by much. </p>
<p>From the retirement angle, the high taxes (property, income, sales, corruption surcharge 
) just make it a bad value proposition. </p>
<p>Bob I get that sense from you posting history. I too am an old fashion liberal but I do understand and have sympathy for the impact high taxes have on people. Truth be told I do not think the system we have in NJ works. I think we can do better and get more for our tax money.</p>
<p>I also know that no matter what we spend a kid in Newark is not going to get the same education as a kid in Milburn. But neither is a kid in Woodbridge going to get that Milburn education. </p>
<p>It will probably take generations to change, money or not. My daughter was teaching many kids whose parents were illiterate. Many of the parents were delighted that their kids would do better than they had, but their kids were starting from a disadvantage. And most shocking to me, some parents’ view was that my daughter was undermining them in front of their children (and DD was trained to be sensitive to this, and is by nature a sensitive person). </p>
<p>My town has about the 10th-highest per-house property taxes in the state, out of about 350 cities and towns.</p>
<p>Our town’s schools are also ranked about 10th in the state, based on state testing and SAT scores.</p>
<p>Is there a relationship? Maybe, maybe not. Our per-student expenditure is down in the 70s out of 350.</p>
<p>School funding is something like 85% of the town’s budget, and the high taxes do cause some contention. Many seniors feel they are priced out of town by the taxes, and when they sell people with kids move in because of the high quality schools, which then creates budget pressure to accommodate them, which raises the taxes even higher… it’s a vicious circle.</p>
<p>I believe State wide school taxes make up on average 65% of the property tax bill.</p>
<p>SOSConcern, good luck. We’ll be thinking about you.</p>
<p>Most parents in the towns outside of the top districts would not stand for the workload and expectations that the high achieving districts place on their students.</p>
<p>I would vote for Tom to run things. At least he would make sure we knew where our money was going.</p>
<p>It always amazes me around here with the property taxes. People will always vote for an increase in property taxes for the schools, and they never stop asking. But the reality is, the schools are well funded and very good schools in these areas, with plenty of volunteers and equipment. I suspect they would be great if they didn’t have the latest and greatest tools because the parents are involved, and education is a priority in these areas. Sometimes I think it doesn’t matter how much money the districts have, they always want more, and it is unlikely to change the outcomes. Unfortunately, money is not always the answer. But it’s always the question.</p>
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<p>In our township, the purchasing price is the assessed value with minor adjustment. Until a house appreciates, one would be paying 4% of the market value.</p>
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And not only the parents outside the top districts. Last year, we had a student run for BOE on a platform that included a plank that we should limit AP classes to one a year, because the kids were under too much stress. He was elected, although I don’t know if that plank had anything to do with it. I guess that way, students could take one AP and the GC could say that the student “had taken the most rigorous course of study available at the school.”</p>
<p>^Similar things happen in my kid’s “rigorous” private school. Influential parents try to limit the academic rigor to their kids’ capability.</p>