@busdriver11, the difference might be that my kids’ accounts are UTMA accounts. I know it’s closed for new accounts, but I guess they are allowed in “for old time’s sake.”
Btw, re active vs indexed funds:
PRIMECAP’s turnover rate is 10.8%.
It is far from an average active fund.
@IxnayBob. Neither of us has set hobbies–it’s been a process of evolution. Travel is part of our discretionary spending. I don’t view shopping as a hobby, though it’s probably the #1 hobby in our area. I’ve been clearing out so much stuff that I am reluctant to bring any more stuff into my life and our house. Getting rid of books has been very difficult but I’m forcing myself to be brutal.
D’s hobbies will get more expensive, but eventually she’ll have to be on her own payroll.
I don’t mind putting the work into the planning–it is a luxury to be able to do it without being under duress. But it has been on my plate for several months–probably dating back to my earliest posts in this thread. One can round and round and end up with the same conclusions.
@Miamidap I have a retirement hobby suggestion for you - help your h.s. -aged grandkids with the college application process.
^ Good luck on that!
But I heard of a joke from a retirement-related TV show before: the grandparents and their teen-aged grandkids could teamwork with each other relatively well. This is because they have a common “enemy”: the parents of the grandkids (or, the child of the grandparents.)
@AttorneyMother, Spending per year x how many estimated years you are expected <
portfolio value
I understand this.
People who do this will probably end up with more than they need even if they aren’t including ss, pensions, a home more expensive than they need, an inheritance.
.2 of spending per year x how many estimated years you are expected to live < portfolio value.
I wonder how many retirees can cut expenses 80 percent?
@dstark, you caught my math-related typo! I meant cut expenses TO 80% (i.e., by 20% worse case scenario). Thank you for pointing that out. Luckily the numbers were just written on a napkin! 
No wonder @IxnayBob thinks we have no hobbies! Why didn’t you just say what dstark said. Good grief!
ETA: luckily I haven’t started losing my marbles, so thanks for pointing that out.
@AttorneyMother, I am glad to read what you wrote. After reading what you originally wrote, I was thinking. I know a couple of therapists and a psychiatrist. I was thinking of giving you their names.
I like your first equation. I use that equation. That’s a bogleheads equation? That’s good.
I don’t think my expenses will go down at all in retirement. I’m not sure why they would go down one cent? Anything that you save based upon items like work related expenses may be easily replaced by any travel that you do. Of course if you need to cut back because of finances, you’d do what you had to, but I don’t see that expenses will go down because of retirement. Maybe things like no longer contributing to your 401K and paying lower taxes, but if you have to pay for health insurance, that seems like a wash with the 401K.
@dstark, you never know. I could be a Ross Perot relation and I’m going from $10,000,000 / year to $2,000,000 per year.
Actually, that’s what I’ve seen over at BH. 25 x expenses for 4% withdrawal rate and 33 x expenses for 3% withdrawal rate.
It is very hot here, so given the risk of heat stroke, I appreciate the sanity check!
ETA: I mention Ross Perot because one of my D’s physicians is married to one of Perot’s daughters.
But this is a choice you are making, right?
If I had your pension, I may make the same choice.
Once I built up a nest egg to carry me somewhat if something happened to the pensions, I might spend the money. We should live! For some people, saving is living. For those people, that’s fine.
Heathcare costs are expensive. I can’t wait to see my premiums when I am in my 60’s. Echhhh.
I don’t count medicare in my retirement cost numbers going forward. I use private insurance numbers but I keep the cost increases lower than they really will be. So I use in between medicare and private insurance numbers. If I get medicare… awesome. Party time! If I don’t…well I adjusted my costs already a little bit.
Medicare has too much political risk and there is too much ignorance so I can’t rely on medicare.
I almost find it amusing that my 87 year old dad pays less for healthcare than I do. 
The $30-40K/year we’ve been putting into retirement accounts goes away. As does the $25K+ we’ve been paying for college for the last 7 years that we are paying out of our income.
Add in the taxes we’re paying on the $25K.
We paid over $20K in FICA taxes last year (DW is self-employed) plus the taxes on the income used to pay the FICA taxes, that goes away. If we downsize we save another $5K in property taxes and a similar amount of mortgage interest.
That’s $100K less in expenses without even trying.
Health insurance might cost more, but we are already paying almost $10K/year for my company insurance (covering 3 of us). I don’t think Medicare will be that much, and it won’t be all that much more expensive to get an ACA plan for two of us if we need it for a few years.
DW wants to travel… that will certainly add some expense.
My expense will go down significantly. It’s obvious my husband and I make too much money as a couple. 
@AttorneyMother, I like your Ross Perot ancedote. ( He was right about that giant sucking sound).
And I considered that you could be spending $10 million a year. That’s why I wrote “I wonder how many retirees”.
I hate the 4 percent rule but, yeah, that equation of 25 years is ok. I hope to live longer than that.
I use net income in my numbers. After tax numbers, I always have. Some of you like to use gross income. That’s why some of you get so mad when you see your taxes.
An example, I make $50,000 gross. $35,000 net after tax. I don’t see the $50,000. I see $35,000 even if the check says $50,000.
Try it. It will save a lot of aggrevation.
I think my wife and my health insurance premiums in 5 years are going to total about $19,000. This is also not a deduction if both parties aren’t working. I will be 64 then. With medicare, should be under $10,000 for the both of us. The coverage is better with medicare too.
So…if any of you really support the end of medicare, and because of this I don’t receive medicare when I am 65, I am going to be knocking on your door.
@dstark, I appreciate that you gave me that benefit of the doubt. You were being too kind. And if it were true, I’ll happily bow out of this thread and announce that I’m leaving to spend my retirement in the South seas before the oceans rise any higher <-- reference to another thread.
I think we will have no choice but reduce our expenses after retirement. It is not because we make too much before retirement.
I have a great concern about the health care expenses before 65. Will the $19000 a year be about the right number before 65, and $10000 a year after that (for a couple’s annual health care cost)?
If there will be no medicare after 65, we definitely can not afford to retire in this country.
Off topic: My wife was shopping at a grocery store the other day. Before she entered the store, she noticed there was a homeless woman crying very loudly while lying on the floor. It was a sad scene. (All her belongings seem to be on some cart.) Somehow there seem to be more people in poverty in Silicon Valley, than where we used to live (Texas.)
There used to a Borders bookstore between El Camino and Mathilda in Sunnyvale, near where we live. Someone (in their 20s to 30s) begged for money even inside the bookstore. (It happened multiple times to me.) I never had such an experience in Texas. But more Californians surely drive better cars than Texans do.
But this may be because, relatively speaking, I may now live in a poorer neighborhood in California than when I was in Texas – because I do not care about the school district we live in any more. Maybe I have never been in a poorer neighborhood in Texas.
Because of this experience, I think that if we retire into a lower COL state or even other country, we could have a better life after we no longer have wage income and rely totally on our pensions/SS/nest eggs.
@AttorneyMother, Lol! And I love your reference.
mcat2, I am just estimating. These are unsubsidized rates. The numbers could come in a little lower. In Cal, there are built in increases in premiums for age. Every year, if health care costs don’t rise, premiums are still going to rise a few percent a year. 60 year olds pay more than 59 year old for example.
How old are you?
Medicare is going to exist… Very high probabilty.
20 years ago I wished I could live up to 65 so that I could take care of my kids. Now I wish I can live up to 75 or 80.
I don’t know whether my retirement fund will dry up by time. But the worst worry I have is whether I will be sane enough to know how much money I have, how to pay tax, how to spend, how to take care of my paperwork.
@coolweather, I empathize completely.
I’ve been working to close and consolidate accounts, clean up files and reduce the complexity, etc. I was so relieved to shred two whole file drawers full of records we no longer need. I’m realizing that I have to keep on top of this more because the time horizon before retirement / downsizing is getting shorter. When we retire, I do not want all this weighing me down. Then, H can also let go of all of his tons of memos, books and journals. But, in the meantime, I work on my end and occasionally toss one of his shirts or pants in the Goodwill bag to make me feel better because I can’t get rid of his books and papers without his input.
Just a suggestion: If you start by doing some financial housekeeping and simplifying, that might relieve some of your worries. Even though there is always more to do, that has helped me.
ETA: I also fully expect that when we get older, we’ll appoint each other as financial attorneys-in-fact and our D for each of us, all as part of getting our estates in order.