@Happytimes2001, NYS’s 529 plan has very low fees.
It’s open to residents of all states.
https://www.nysaves.org/home/why-ny-529-direct-plan/highlights.html
Before this thread reaches 1000th page, I’d like to go back to the OP’s original question posed:
“How much income do you think you’ll need when you retire? How much would someone have to have in a 401k to allow for that?”
It’s of course a very complex question since it all depends on one’s geographic location, post-retirement lifestyle, debts, life expectancy, etc. etc.
But I’d really like to see what the rough dollar amounts that you can all come up with based on the following scenario:
- A couple retiring at age, let's say, 60. Existential expiration age for both, say, 85 (think "Blade Runner"). Assume relatively good health
- No debt of any kind, i.e., no car payments, children's college expenses all accounted for
- Mortgage all paid for
- Living in a state with average cost of living with the annual property tax of, say, $2,500 - $3,000
- Assume average expenses: auto, health insurances, gas, utilities, etc.
- No extravagant lifestyle, i.e., no global traveling, no fancy 5-star dining, etc. Prefer outdoor and nature for enjoyment
Any takers?
I’ve been interested in consulting with a FA for awhile even though dh has always managed our portfolio and has done well. However, we don’t have friends who use one and the couple that I’ve reached out to (one through SB and one through Schwab) were pretty unimpressive. Curious to know how to find someone good when I can’t get a rec from a friend.
@TiggerDad — what is the projected annual expenses now vs post retirement? For us, knowing our actual expenses pre as well as projected post retirement were the most useful for projecting what we needed.
Some of the FIRE people live comfortably on <$30k/year.
Assuming both worked, two average SS checks will be around $2500. So you only need around $150k in a 401k to make up the difference, using the 4% rule.
You will need another $250k-ish to pay for health insurance and living expenses before Medicare and SS kick in though, if they retire at 60.
And if either needs nursing home care, they will die penniless
@TiggerDad, you’ve described me and DH to a T. We retired last year at 59/60, have already moved/downsized, and live in a low COL state, but our dollar amount is our dollar amount and not up for discussion. I’ll PM you, though. 
@oldmom4896 NY was the one I came up with but after the poor returns on the ones we had, we spoke to our FA and he said, at this point just hold off on the 529s. For us, it wasn’t really a good thing given numerous factors.
@collage1 First find a good firm. Find a small boutique firm that invests as you would like to invest. A small firm means you will get individual services and attention and still the advisors can specialize and share info. Many financial advisory firms hold open house type things, we are always getting these in the mail ( and we aren’t billionaires). They have an open house where you can go usually with a meal served and meet the staff. There’s no obligation. Depending on where you live, you can look up financial planners and then check their reviews. Ask friends. Understand how the FA gets paid. Look at their education. This is VERY important. What are their qualifications?
We had a lovely woman at a small firm who did great for us. She left and they gave us a 25 year old kid who talked baseball. I fired him after about 1 month. Tone deaf. But I liked the firm and just called the owner and said, hey it’s a mismatch. I do think you need someone who is of a similar age so they can understand your needs. Older is fine but younger won’t do. Also, if you own a business you need someone who can understand your business and never someone who tries to talk you into anything. If they are selling you something, you should run. They are managing your money NOT controlling it. Also, make sure you don’t fall into the Bernie Madoff issue: Your money should always be in a separate account held by a third party firm. It should never be held by the firm managing the money. So my FA works for X company, but my $ is in Y firm ( secured services company). Never invest in things you don’t understand or couldn’t sell tomorrow. See what they do when you ask them a complex question. Do they get back to you? Do they have other resources? Are they in house or elsewhere?
Wanted this to be “rough” so I’ll put some rough figures here, let’s say, the annual expenses for pre and post to be about the same:
Health insurance, say, non-subsidized ($12,000)
Auto insurance for 2 cars with 2 young drivers age below 25 ($2,000)
Home insurance ($2,000)
Property tax ($2,500)
Utility, cable, phone bills ($6,000)
Misc - occasional dining, food, gas, clothing, minor travel, etc. ($5,000)
Total Annual Expenses: $29,500
OMG! Where do you live that your property tax is $2,500? Mine is 6 times that, just for one home! If there’s no snow where you are, I’m putting it on my list.
@TiggerDad, everyone’s numbers will be different. We have been tracking expenses for several years and have a pretty good idea of what we spend in a year. DH is retired, I will follow soon. He will probably start SS next year at 66. Add that to my very modest teacher’s pension, subtract from yearly budget and find the number to pull from savings each year. Divide by 0.035. (I’m not counting on pulling 4% each year). That’s what we will feel comfortable having.
There are many states with an average property tax around there, no? AZ, CO, MT, NM, etc. just to name a few?
@Happytimes2001 investments in NYS 529 plan are managed by Vanguard.
@TiggerDad: Sssssshhhhhhhhh!!! We don’t need more people moving here. 
@TiggerDad — since you’re estimating about $30k/year, @notrichenough’s post above (on prior page of this thread) provides a helpful place to start.
We wouldn’t do very well on $30k/year; we are all different. You may want to build in some lumpy expenses—eg replacing roof, maintenance, painting, replacing vehicle, large medical expenses, etc.
The wild cards with @TiggerDad is health insurance from age 60 to 65 - some will have more budget friendly options based on their employer extending, or with Teacher Retirement or Government Retirement; and if LT care is needed. If those two factors are out…One wants to have a fund base to generate enough for continuing years. I do suspect people will want to travel in the early years as the later years may need to be more sedentary due to health issues and no desire to make the efforts for travel.
It’s College “Confidential”! ;
You can create a mysocialsecurity account to get an estimate of your and spouse’s SS. That can be a nice stream of income you can at least estimate.
It is recommended that folks only withdraw 3-4% of investment assets do they can last and not be depleted.
Someone’s going to retire at 60 and not replace a car before they die at 85? We drive our cars into the ground, but they don’t last 25 years!
I drive a 2005 Volvo, meticulously maintained all these years, and it’s good until I’m 85 or dead, whichever comes first. 
My H is driving a well-maintained 1998 Volvo but we are expecting to have to replace it before much longer.
My 2000 Toyota van was fine until the costs of fixing it finally outweigh the van’s value. We are looking to replace it soon.
One needs to have a fund for these major lumpy expenses, including appliances that need replacing, transportation (like taxi, Uber, lyft), and others that can’t be otherwise handled in a bare bones lean budget. They do happen and going from crisis to crisis is a tough existence.