My dad’s funeral was last night, and I was talking to his old girlfriend. (They broke up before he got really sick.) She was asking in a round-about way how we were able to keep Dad at home.
@kjofkw You mention your elderly friend. I didn’t think of it at the time, but I think since COVID she is less likely to want to move to assisted living. We will be giving her a lot of the eldercare stuff we collected for Dad.
Note that for most people who buy houses, the house is a very leveraged investment, since they are borrowing most of the purchase price (which is unlikely when buying stocks or stock index mutual funds). So they can gain a lot of equity from what they put in if the price goes up. Of course, their equity can also be wiped out quickly if the price goes down. At least there is no margin call for those who keep living there and paying the loan and property tax payments.
@BerneseMtnMom and @kjofkw, my mother moved to senior independent living last year. Right now, she is pretty lonely as they are all restricted more or less to their rooms. Meals are distributed to the rooms.
@shawbridge Really sorry to hear your mom is lonely. My father in law was in an assisted living facility in Florida last year, pre Covid. We did lots of research prior and thought we found a great place. We weren’t thrilled with how he was doing there. Isolation, limited activities, meal time etc… Long story short, we opted to bring him back home to his place an pay for 24/7 care. Not cheap, but he is much more happy being in his own home. Covis hit and many of the residents in that facility have since passed. Sad, but reality. We sort of got lucky we pulled hime out when we did.
Good luck with your mom
I’d park the extra cash in tax-free municipal bonds. Relatively low rate of return, but it’s tax-free so it’s competitive with some nominally higher taxable rates of return. Either that or purhcase a bond fund from Fidelity or Vanguard. They offer very low fees so you get to keep almost all the earnings. Very secure, low-risk investment. A third option is to give it away to kids or grandkids. They can give up to $30K per year per person without gift tax consequences–$15K for each spouse. That means they could give you and your spouse up to $60K per year. Parents with kids to support probably have a greater need for the money than nonagenarians. A final option: put it in 529 education savings accounts for the grandkids or great-grandkids, to help them with their college education which as we all know can be very pricey and a financial burden on the parents and sometimes on the kids themselves if they’re saddled with substantial educational debt.
My elderly friend is fortunately not in a senior facility with limited access. She’s actually in a cottage style retirement community, where everyone owns their own small homes. She’s been there for nearly 2 years, so pre-Covid, and plenty of time to make new friends. But she misses the space, the yard, the gardens, the past neighbors, and primarily the memories of her former home of I’m guessing about 40+ years. The home was also in a much more convenient part of town.
Her story reminds us to hopefully find something we are excited to move toward, and not simply move because we “should” downsize for our next life phase. As some have mentioned, moving is also typically very expensive, and a major hassle. Might be worth it if you’re excited about the next step.
And of course, we hope we’re fortunate enough to not have to move due to an emergency.
My sister is having a great experience in an independent living facility. She dabbled on landscaping a while ago. It is coming in rather handy. Made many friends gardening together and having the best time of her life.
My in my in laws love their assisted living situation, too. A number of residents at their place moved thee from another local AL facility, and they are so pleased that they did. Although it would be tough to move more than once, it’s important to make the move if a situation doesn’t work out.
I wouldn’t assume never taking a sick day presages a long life. My Dad never missed a day of work in 45 years and retired in excellent health at age 65. At his annual check-up every year his doctor said he was fit as a fiddle and would live forever if he just kept doing whatever it was he was doing. But he got cancer at age 76 and was dead by the time he was 77. My mother resented it. She was in poor health from her 40s on and always assumed she’d be the first to die because she was chronically ill with diseases known to shorten life expectancy, such as diabetes, high blood pressure, and kidney disease. But my Dad dropped dead quite suddenly after appearing to rally from his cancer.
My Mom resented that he left her with all his household chores, not to mention the yard work. She thought this was terribly unfair and a cruel twist of fate. She had spent years worrying herself sick about how my Dad was going to take care of himself after she died, especially since he didn’t cook and refused to learn. He blithely replied that he had six kids so he’d just spend two months a year with each of them. They’d take turns taking care of him and putting proper meals on the table. Instead she ended up cooking for herself after his death, which she also hated. To her, dinner time was family time. If there was no family to share it with, there seemed to be little point.Over time her efforts at cooking became more and more perfunctory. And all the time she was both missing my Dad terribly and muttering under her breath about how unfair it was that he had abandoned her to this fate.
@bclintonk Your Dad reminded me of my sister. No medical issues at all. But at 63 she was diagnosed of cancer and died about a year later. My Mom had diabetes and other medical issues at early age and was taking a lot of medicine and at times hospitalized every now and then. She died at age 93. I’m scared that I will end up like my sister. I’m 52 and no medical issues.
The biggest benefit to downsizing when you’re old is it forces you to deal with all your stuff while you are alive, and not make your kids have to clean out 40 years of crap you’ve piled up.
My mother is still living on her own at 89, but she is basically a prisoner in her condo. Can’t go to church, gets get food delivered. My aunt lives across the hall and they visit, and my brother and sister are local but they don’t want to risk spending much time there.
My mom’s independent living facility is doing a great job balancing safety & social interaction. They’ve had no positive cases with residents or staff (who are tested weekly). She’s also somewhat technically savvy and has a balcony with a great view. She was worried that she wouldn’t be able to afford living there, but we couldn’t find anything comparable even at 3X the price in our area.
97yo MIL is in her home with around-the-clock care. She can afford it, but boy that money’s draining quickly. It’s harder to ensure the virus won’t come in with multiple caretakers, but she’s in home hospice now so quality of life is the most important thing to provide her.
As H and I head into retirement this year, our takeaway is that we’d much rather be in my mom’s situation than his mom’s. Challenge is that the good places get crazy pricy if we want to stay in our area.
They do need to know that their principal will vary in a bond fund. And for muni bonds, tax free investing might not be that important to a senior, depending on their situation. Also, be careful what munis you buy because many state and local governments are going to see a Covid impact to both their revenues and expenditures.
Thanks @BmacNJ. She moved to Tennessee (from NJ) because my sister lived there with her daughters and surgeon/head of specialty at hospital husband. We figured she would be able to see the only grandchildren who are still at home (and have a fantastic relationship with her) and, if she needed medical care, she would get great care because of my BIL. And, it is true. She needed to be hospitalized briefly and the docs and nurses were all over her, as my BIL is really smart, demanding and can be grumpy. I think the docs do it as professional courtesy and the nurses wanted to make sure that Dr. X’s MIL was feeling well-treated. My brother who had just retired decided he would move there also and seems a lot happier there than he was back home. She could move in with my sister’s family but with a surgeon working everyday in the hospital, this seemed a little ill advised. She’s philosophical about it. part of the idea of the move was to be in a place where she could walk to exercise classes and book groups etc. She’s 96 and can do a one minute plank (or could pre-COVID). She misses the physical and social stimulation as the residents are basically staying in their apartments. She wishes she could be home but it is not clear what that option means anymore.
@doschicos, that is why my mother’s FA has a bunch of short-term bonds rather than a bond fund. As long as they hold to expiry, there is no loss of principal (though there could be if they had to sell prematurely).
I was a victim of this club mentality many years ago. I was in for a routine annual, waiting and waiting. Finally, I was next in line. Just then someone walks in and I heard the doctor whisper to the receptionist not to make her wait, that she is wife of Dr x. When they called her in before me, I got up, requested my copay refund and found another doctor.
Covid experiences has certainly given everyone more ‘food for thought’; I suspect more people will find a way to ‘age in place’ - even if it is downsizing from their home and then have any care coming into their place.
MIL and FIL (both 91) were able to see each other and hold hands at an outdoor sitting area at FIL’s skilled care facility (he is there because he likes to be waited on and was too much to handle at home) while MIL wants to live at home until she dies and is happiest there (care person comes in, but MIL doesn’t allow other caregivers and she needs someone coming in every day). MIL and FIL talk on the phone every day and say ‘I love you’ to each other - something very rarely said when they were both at home.
Very happy with 401k return. I was re-analyzing the fund choices to put together information for H’s co-workers who like to follow what we are doing, and found two of the four fund choices we were in were still holding/increasing value while the other two were some months (Jan - June 2020) in the negative (last year all were up, so based on LT return, we went equally with 3 of the funds and lower with one); so now adjusted to a higher % amount in two funds and lower % amount in two funds - and the last two weeks the funds have done really well with the new choices (had moved all the funds to those same percentage values). From 1/1 to 7/8 (before percentage changes) had 6.72% increase in account value; from 1/1 to 7/22 had 10.45% increase in fund value ($30k more account value from 7/8 to 7/22). The two funds have 10 year return of 18.69% and 20.96%. Net expense ratio of these two funds is .75% and 1.11% (compared to .57% and .99% of the other two funds who have 10 year return of 11.13% and 12.63%). The 401k managing company Prudential added a new feature where I could get our current investment funds compared side by side on one sheet - that gave a very clear picture. Also getting the Morningstar current quarter Fund Fact Sheet. The inception dates of these four funds range from 1996 to 2009.
Importantly, our 24 and 26 YO DDs and 30 YO SIL are more willing to ask for our input on financial decisions and investment decisions.
There were a lot of years H and I did not have the tools (or did the research w/o internet) to have our investment money work well for us. We did OK. We saved heavily in early years (DINKs) even on relatively small salaries.
Covid/effects of Covid on top of not having enough money (or not being able to work now due to a variety of reasons), or business debt/small business owner who is going to lose their investment. School age or college age kids with disrupted education. Many are having terrible stresses.
I know the elderly being lonely when their lives have already ‘shrunk’. My life shrunk during aggressive stage III cancer and the aggressive treatments - many days/weeks/months almost all I could do was lay on the couch.
Everyone needs to have coping skills. And it is a shame when people in our first world prosperous country cannot find happiness or contentment. Many in the world are greatly suffering in very dire situations and circumstances beyond their control. Much may be due to the loss of faith based culture (not WASP but real faith and the golden rule) replaced with secular culture.
IDK how many of you have the Kiplinger Aug 2020 issue, but one article discusses specific cities “Finding a great Place to Retire” (in FL, AL, TN, NC, IND, MO, and OKLA) - and we have lived in one since 1983. Methodology included things important to seniors. Food for thought.
A two page article discusses the author sorting out a decision on relocating from busy Northern Virginia to South Carolina. 16 Retirement Mistakes You Will Regret Forever | Kiplinger ‘16 retirement mistakes you will regret forever’ includes “relocating on a whim.”
Interesting article, @SOSConcern. Another regret that I see with my mother: Moving too late in life. She had much less of a community than she would have had she moved a decade before (when my sister first proposed it).
I think I would regret living in almost all of the places listed. Raleigh would probably be good. But, I’m probably wouldn’t value the same things as the typical Kiplinger audience. I’ve prepared for a higher COL. I don’t really value city things as much as outdoors (hiking, cycling, kayaking, tennis before I hurt my knee/back) and beautiful views. I want intellectual vibrancy. People trying to make things happen and change the world. I see that both in the Bay Area (many startup founders really think they are trying to change the world) and the Boston area. I value high quality medical care. But, I need access to a city for when ShawWife (and I) need urban things – she values them more highly.
I just did the Best Places Quiz, which doesn’t let me input all of my preferences, but it came back with:
We strongly considered Boulder and would probably love Santa Cruz. I don’t know the other areas particularly. They didn’t let me express a preference to be near an airport with lots of international flights (or a preference that ShawWife wanted her primary house to be in the Northeast).
For us, being near our kids is the most important thing. We live in a state that offers a variety of beautiful outdoor places within easy driving distance, we have a family cottage on a lake, and we don’t mind the snowy winters (beats the horrible humidity we experienced in the south last week). We don’t get the breaks some states have, like no school tax after 65 (which Georgia has). But we like it here, and we can afford it … so here we will stay. If the kids leave, we might reevaluate in the future.