MIL is currently receiving LTC benefits from a Genworth policy. It would definitely have been more difficult to qualify if not for the AL staff, who helped with the qualification, and my BIL (who normally bugs the bejeezus out of me, but whose abrasive used car salesman personality was very helpful in this case). Getting the company to agree that the insured meets the criteria is no picnic. She is happy she has the policy, which she got at 55 - she dropped coverage levels through the years when rates went up, and her current coverage is $100/day.
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Qualifying my mother for LTC was far easier than I realized. I had been waiting to her to strongly meet the criteria (unable to do at least 2 of 6 ADL - Activities of Daily Living … bathing, dressing, eating, transferring in/out of bed, toileting, continence). It turned out that for her policy, just saying “hospice” was enough. I did need to send a PDF-scan of her Medical POA. My guess is that the newer policies are stricter.
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We got LTC when the fed govt first offered it. I was 41 and had just been dx’d with leukemia. The premiums were low, and got the max coverage for me possible without having to answer medical questions. It’s gotten more expensive, and we have reduced some of the coverage to keep premiums reasonable-ish. The insurer has frozen benefits this year as they reassess, which tells me next year’s premium will go way up. When the feds switched from one insurer to the current one, we had the option to cancel and get our premiums back. If they offer that option again, I may take them up on it and throw those funds into savings.
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One ‘horror story’ I heard (don’t know the specific insurance company) was how the insurance company defined ADL’s. In this particular case, the patient could not prepare a meal, could not understand proper nutrition, but they COULD lift a spoon to their mouth, and therefore could ‘technically’ feed themselves.
Heresay only – so I’m curious for those of you who have had bad experiences with LTC insurance companies, what they were.
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kjofkw - I’d be interested in that info too!
Yea, that is what concerns me. If we use the LTC coverage, we’ll be glad we had it. And if we are independent til the end - great. But if we need the LTC help but don’t qualify, that would be tragic.
Note about the costs I mentioned upthread - we started LTC in our 50s, when there was an employer group plan we liked. If you start later, premiums will be higher (fewer years to pay in).
For my uncle and according to my cousin who was a nursing director with a special interest in dementia, dementia does make a difference. Uncle has prudential and one of the examples in handbook is that if can physically do something like feeding but has to be prompted, then same as if can’t do it. My uncle can take a shower but you literally have to tell him each step.
That’s a pretty standard definition of feed one’s self.
We got a flier for a free, six-hour retirement planning seminar taught by someone affiliated with this group, which has a 31% on Charity Navigator. Anyone have experience with this outfit? I am pretty resistant to a sales pitch so I’m not worried in that regard.
I attended something with them in the DC area, and actually met with an advisor associated with the group. I didn’t choose to establish a relationship with them, but got useful information from our meeting.
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When you registered, did you have to give them much info? That is dh’s concern.
To attend the info session no, I didn’t have to give them much. But for them to do an analysis of our situation then yes. But that was our choice.
We attended several retirement planning classes at community college (2 nights each, about $60). In class, no personal detail were shared. But at the optional one-on-one meetings, we did share balances of our accounts and investments (but of course no account numbers).
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We attended a 6 hour/2 consecutive day of week evening course and only paid for materials (which was the two workbooks for our use $49 total) - the workbooks were from Financial Educators Network (copyright 2003 - 2020) titled Retirement Planning Today. We did go for appointment with our instructor (who is President of his local firm) - the second night the material moved fast – and I was comfortable with the instructor (he knew his stuff) - and they are fiduciaries (which means they are to look out for your best financial interest). We met with him over several appointments before we began structuring things with him – we started in 2013 when we were 57. We needed to lower our risk, and he had the ways to do so. We review a risk analysis every so often and stay in line with it. He also consolidated a lot of our accounts - IRA/Roth IRA/SarSep. We converted our IRAs to Roth IRAs and paid the taxes. I continue to manage our large 401(k) - stock diversified funds – former employer pays general expenses, and our investment choices are in four different stock group funds - large cap/value, lar cap/growth, small cap/blend and small cap/growth – investment percent chosen based on longer term returns with all the specific choices. We have no pension income. We have spun off annuity purchases from 401(k) over several years from 2013 to July 2021. Even with all the money pulled from 401(k), our balance in 401(k) is higher than before pulling money out (due to very good return years, specifically 2019 and 2020. 2021 had 15.2% return (pretty much that year was a wash out with 2022). Our annuities are providing our cash flow now in retirement. We only bought annuities when the terms of the annuity worked for us - and financial advisor found the specific annuities.
I know annuities can have a ‘bad rap’ - but many times it is because someone is selling the annuity for their up front commission and it may/probably is not the best annuity for that client.
I suspect my sister and her very conservative older husband have invested too conservatively – he is 85 now and she is 69. When he dies, if sis wants me to review her portfolio…I just think her financial advisor has not been working in her best interest, and it may be due to being ‘conservative’. He told her at their last meeting, that if her husband needed to go into a facility, their funds would run out in 3 years. I find that appalling as she inherited a mid- six figure amount from our parents’ estate (some before, but a big chunk in early 2011), and she told me they put it all in retirement/investments – and they had funds in retirement before the death benefits. At today’s costs, the initial investment in 2011 dollars should handle at least 4 years of today’s cost of skilled care/retirement home.
Some people very knowledgeable do use a fiduciary where they pay a per hour rate and are comfortable with that.
We attend the twice a year general ‘state of the markets’ information, and schedule our personal appointments twice a year. I like to digest the ‘state of the markets’, do some research, and get all our questions in during our appointment.
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With LTC Insurance, and specifically on our policy, Dementia can meet requirements for policy to ‘kick in’. Some may ‘automatic qualify’ with Hospice designation.
Some people have Dementia in their 50’s - often that is a severe form and they do not live long.
“Activities of Daily Living” - as stated – some insurance companies may give a very hard time on this, even with MD information/forms. And you cannot hire a relative to provide care (based on our policy).
My mother had Dementia and died of it at age 77 (she was bi-polar and on meds that may have exacerbated Dementia, especially because her liver function was so good that she was on higher than usual meds for years). Years earlier, she may have qualified for a higher premium policy, but my brother decided to go for the lower cost policy (different companies) - and she was turned down. If you get turned down by one company, you often cannot obtain a policy from another company – so also choose carefully on what company you apply with for LTC insurance.
The person on this thread that didn’t have a policy increase until 10 years later – well, most likely it was a 10 year level premium policy (which is what we have). When policy prices went up, they offered us a change in policy so our premiums would not go up but limited our benefits. So we did that - we pay $1016/year each for our annual premium - the original policy is of course no longer available.
Our LTC policy was with a company which was licensed in 22 states – they changed from LTC insurance to carrying physician malpractice insurance – they felt like their risk/reward was better.
One can examine LTC insurance that is ‘blended’ - with whole life or other insurance – but an article I saw not too long ago had those be quite high cost considering the potential benefit. One may do better putting funds into investments and ‘self insure’. IMHO there may not be many or any policies that currently are ‘worth’ what you have to pay for very limited benefits - and investing the money may be a better option.
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Anyone approaching age 65, have the desire to retire, but due to uncertainties of the market or other issues/setbacks (be it Covid, housing situation, family concerns, etc.) believe you may need to wait and have finances on a steadier course? Maybe share if you have been able to navigate issues to retire on the time plan you had desired.
Key for us was lowering our financial risk with our holdings/portfolio and assets. We had recognized the need to get our financial advisor to do so - but who to get to do a good job and that you can trust? 10 years ago we found our advisor - and over these years DH has learned and understood more (he is an engineer, while I have two graduate business degrees but not the interest in the deep dive with financial industry). Neither of us have pensions, so we established our stream of income from annuities. Last year was the start of DH’s SS and our cash stream of annuity withdrawals - and that has worked well for us. I started SS right at age 65 and my retirement - since we were a single income family for 18 years (I had a sunset career for 5 years which had my own SS be a bit larger than 1/2 of DH’s). We built up enough in 401(k) and other funds, paid for house, two DDs out of college debt free. We spun money out of 401(k) to purchase annuities over time, and also have Roth IRAs. We meet with our Financial Advisor soon to make any adjustments (we will sign paperwork this week with the added amount we are taking out monthly on the pensions - adjustment up by a reasonable sum). Since the required minimum distribution age has gone up a little for us, will see what we want to do this year so we stay on target with that.
Participating with the “Buying your adult kids a house or helping them buy one” CC thread - and will see how we will siphon off some funds to prepare to potentially help DD2 with a home purchase when she is ready for it, this year or next. DD1/family will be moving a bit in the next few years and are far from ready for home ownership. Our home is an asset that continues to rise in value, and there are projects I want to do to improve the value even more so that when we are ready to sell and move, it will not be all in a crunch. However, everything is based on continued good health with DH and me.
Interesting - I follow Dave Ramsey (I’ve learned a lot of basics from him as someone relatively new to all this!). He is against annuities b/c of the fees and difficulty of transfering money out. Were there any pros you saw that convinced you that annuities were beneficial over, say, a 401k?
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I think individual financial situation & tolerance for risk play into choosing annuities. I say that without any evaluation of whether they are “good” or “bad.” I know a number of people who have included them in their retirement plans. My in laws included them because they felt comfortable with the guaranteed income they provide. Other people I know use them to be assured of a minimum income at various stages (they purchase multiple annuities that pay out at different times). While some don’t like certain things about them, others consider the safety worth any trade offs.
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I’m wondering who here does a self-directed IRA. I know someone did, was it @notrichenough? We’re looking into options, potentially buying some land for investment purposes, and might want to access our IRA funds (actually 401K, but would convert to it). I know you can use a self-directed IRA for real estate, but I hesitate to do so. It looks like all of these vehicles require fees and more fees to set these things up, everybody takes a cut. Makes me wonder if it’s better to just take the tax hit.
I think it was @sherpa ! Hope he is doing well.
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