<p>
[quote]
One restaurant even had a sign posted saying they would not serve Puerto Ricans.
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</p>
<p>There's no way that can be legal. I would support anyone who filed a lawsuit against the owner of that restaurant.</p>
<p>This year UCLA implemented holistic review, so the black enrollment doubles, but the number of students enrolled from families who make less than $30,000 a year also declined from 955 in 2006 to an estimated 689 for 2007, first-generation college students also decreased from 1,691 in 2006 to an estimated 1,260 in 2007.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's no way that can be legal. I would support anyone who filed a lawsuit against the owner of that restaurant.
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</p>
<p>Had I been kicked out, I would have considered suing (even though my family really wouldn't be able to afford it). Apparently, the reason the restaurant gets away with that is because there aren't any Puerto Ricans in the town. A friendly local told me the small population of Hispanics (the majority of which had been Puerto Rican and Mexican) which had once lived there, had been driven out by racism in schools and at public places like the restaurant and the park children play in near the restaurant. Needless to say, I barely ate anything before I paid for my meal and left; I don't think the guy completely believed me when I said I wasn't Puerto Rican because he kept looking over at my table while I was eating.</p>
<p>fabrizio, i don't know why you keep saying that the messages of Dr. King support your view, because he stood directly opposed to what you support. So please don't misrepresent such a noble man.</p>
<p>Quote:Sending a message that a group can only make it through special treatment is disastrous for the well-being of that group. It perpetuates the myth of inferiority. </p>
<p>What a crock! I can just see all the legacies, athletes, developmental candidates, ED, EA, musicians, artists, George Bush, Kennedy family members, the Gores, Kerry family et. al just groveling in dispair over the perception of being considered inferior. With that line of psuedo psycho bullcrap, all the aforementioned groups should be turning down their acceptances and the waitlisted enrollments should be at an all time high!</p>
<p>If you should ever see the person that turns down those types of opportunities, either praise him for their convictions or curse them for their foolish pride.</p>
<p>madville,</p>
<p>Dr. Claude Steele has done research that has attempted to address the problem of minority underachievement, especially that of Blacks.</p>
<p>His hypothesis is termed “stereotype threat.”</p>
<p>Our nation has historically assumed that Blacks are intellectually inferior. If they make mistakes in class or on tests, that’s “normal.” With such a mentality against them, it would be normal for Black students to choke on exams that count. Dr. Steele gave the same test to two groups of Black students. For the first group, he phrased the test’s description in such a manner that the students thought they were being evaluated on their verbal competency. For the second group, he phrased it such that the students thought it was just an experiment for his work.</p>
<p>Guess what happened?</p>
<p>The first group bombed the test while the second group excelled.</p>
<p>Is the research of Dr. Claude Steele a bunch of pseudo psycho bullcrap? Granted, it’s still developing and not definitive, but it offers some insights that actually aren’t too supportive of racial preferences. Although he does not directly admit it, his research confirms the mismatch hypothesis.</p>
<p>Under the current system, where being a “URM” is advantageous in admissions, students of these groups are routinely given the incentive to enroll in “better,” “more prestigious” schools. Back when California practiced this system, students whose achievements made them very competitive at UCSD were offered admission to Berkeley. They cannot be blamed for following the mindset of Tyler. When offered a chance to attend a more well-known school, they took it. As I’ve mentioned, we know what happened. The graduation rate for Black students was 26% before 1996. The year before Proposition 209 passed, there was one, just one, Black honor student with a GPA of 3.5 or higher. Not only was the graduation rate dismal, but the students who remained were mostly struggling. After the vote, the graduation rate increased to 52%. The number of Black honor students increased to 20% of the freshman class. The magnitude of high-achieving Black freshmen thus increased despite a decrease in the number of total Black freshmen.</p>
<p>Yes, test scores and academics aren’t everything. That’s true. But, it’s not a good idea to send a student to a school where his SAT score places him at the bottom 25% of all students. It’s not a good idea to send him to a school where his high school course rigor was far weaker than that of his peers. The “stereotype threat” is exacerbated, not alleviated.</p>
<p>No one would justify sending an amateur boxer to face a prime-time Lennox Lewis in the ring on the basis of the amateur boxer’s “spark” or “leadership.” But, many defend the practice of sending weaker students to universities where they are not academically fitted precisely because of these students’ “spark” and “leadership.”</p>
<p>I've read Steele's stereotype threat hypothesis and it may have some merit, but this is one individual and one test. Hardly enough to build a platform on.Those other afformentioned groups in my last post are not on par typically with the general student body admitted but there isn't the uproar because race is so significant in the fabric of american life. Where are the front page studies of how those students matriculate, and what number transferred and how many finished at the the head of the class, are struggling, or didn't graduate with honors? It's not as sensational as reading how many minorities aren't making the grade or how unqualified they are to stoke the passions of the elite.</p>
<p>Of those AA who are not graduating, some of the problems were definitely the inadequate secondary school preparation. There are other factors as well. Financial, social and personal factors weigh heavily in AA matriculation. With proper support systems in place these same type of failing students can and have thrived in other types of selective academic environments. I haven't read about the abysmal performances of urm's in the Texas, Florida, and Washington state school systems as compared to the California ones. These states abolished race based preferences as well. Their numbers have declined but not to the extent of the Cali schools.</p>
<p>Affirmative action policies are no more perfect than SAT's in making determinations on who gets in or out. But they both are tools as a work in progress in creating opportunities for urm's and identifying suitable candidates for matriculation into various learning establishments.</p>
<p>Urm's have a long way to go, that's for sure and some of the problems with regards to higher learning are self inflicted no doubt. I doubt that people like Clarence Thomas, and Colin Powell who benefited from affrimative action, lose sleep at night or are terribly pre occupied with the thoughts of whether they belonged or were deserving. They were given opportuities, seized them and are making the most of them. I believe that most urm's given the opportunity can and have risen above any notion of a mythical inferiority.</p>
<p>To those who may suffer from the potential of "stereotype threat", I defer to the words of Marcus Garvey:</p>
<p>"If you have no confidence in self, you are twice defeated in the race of life. With confidence, you have won before you have started."</p>
<p>In any case, it's good that this question, which is asked almost every year by concerned students, has been resolved.</p>
<p>what about AA in the private school systems where black graduation rates and white graduation rates are roughly the same? Obviously there are schools that have better systems then others and when practiced well AA produces undeniably excellent results. And i really don't think it's up to non-minorities to determine whether AA is giving them an inferiority complex.</p>
<p>^^^That only exists at grade-inflated private schools. This doesn't mean that URMs are thriving in such schools or that they are learning anything, only that they are graduating (which is not tough to do at grade-inflated schools). If you want real indicators of performance, you would look at college GPA by race which no college has published yet.</p>
<p>At tough schools that actually hold their students to a reasonable standard (schools like Cornell or Michigan or Berkeley), URMs flounder. Grade inflation tends to blur the distinction between mediocore students and good students.</p>
<p>At tough schools that actually hold their students to a reasonable standard (schools like Cornell or Michigan or Berkeley), URMs flounder. Grade inflation tends to blur the distinction between mediocore students and good students.</p>
<p>From your statement I'm assuming that you believe many of the more selective schools are overrated due to grade inflation?</p>
<p>One of the main reasons to gain a college degree is because in this society it opens more doors of opportunity. Some would argue this is even more so at the elite school level. Just in every discipline there are varying degrees of demonstrated competence. Whether a doctor, lawyer, pilot, civil servant, politician, etc, gpa's and test scores don't neccessarily predict an individuals level of success after graduating or certification. Kinda reminds me of the cliche', "what do they call the guy at the bottom of the medical school graduating class?" Doctor. The same would be said of many college graduates. Let's not trivialize graduating from college, of which only about 58% of people who attend do, or especially of those that graduate from the most selective schools, in which the overwhelming majority do.(urm's included)</p>
<p>^ Uhhh... madville, I don't think that little adage is really so applicable. It's cute but incorrect. Med school graduates don't just approach employers and say, "here's my diploma, when do I start?" They say, "Here's my diploma, grades, and my recommendations. Please call me back regarding your decision." </p>
<p>Your statement, "Whether a doctor, lawyer, pilot, civil servant, politician, etc, gpa's and test scores don't neccessarily predict an individuals level of success after graduating or certification." is false. If you were an employer, and two grads from the same graduate school approached you, one who graduated with higher distinction than the other, who are you going to choose? Certainly, if the one with better grades one is an A-hole, then you're going to higher the other one. I guess I see what you're saying, but let's assume for this example, that everyone is a nice human being, and great to work with. Then you choose the one who is 'more' qualified.</p>
<p>Tyler,</p>
<p>
[quote]
And i really don't think it's up to non-minorities to determine whether AA is giving them an inferiority complex.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As of 2005, Asians are 4.46% of the United States.</p>
<p>My group may not be "under-represented" at research universities, but that does not make us "non-minorities."</p>
<p>If, however, you want to redefine minority, then kindly read Affirmative Action Around the World by Dr. Thomas Sowell. I'm sure that no matter how you redefine what it means to be a minority, he will satisfy your definition.</p>
<p>Quote: Your statement, "Whether a doctor, lawyer, pilot, civil servant, politician, etc, gpa's and test scores don't neccessarily predict an individuals level of success after graduating or certification." is false.</p>
<p>We'll have to agree to disagree. I can present many anecdotes of successful individuals in all walks of life who weren't Rhodes Scholar material. Not only from what i've read but also in my personal experiences. I've yet to go to my private physician, surgeon, atty, cop, or teacher and say, by the way, before you do your thing, where did you finish in your class? Test scores and gpa's are ok, but it may be much harder to measure common sense and an individuals' personal intangible qualities that could make them a more viable candidate in certain areas. Many here are quick to refer to numbers and statistics to justify who or what is more qualified. The wise adcom, employer, personel director, etc, is insightful enough to "look beyond the numbers", and find the right person for the job from all walks of life.</p>
<p>Quote:If, however, you want to redefine minority, then kindly read Affirmative Action Around the World by Dr. Thomas Sowell.</p>
<p>Sowell also speaks about the natural tendencies of the majority group to harbor animosities towards the minorities in their various cultures when there is a real or perceived encroachment upon positions that are coveted by the majority. Reading here for the past few weeks more than validates that observation. While asians in general are a minority within this country, they are significantly represented in academia. AA encroaches on the coveted spots for the majority population and of Asians that covet those spots as well. It's understandible.</p>
<p>^^ That is true. I guess the guy who graduated from Stanford Med on top of his class can just charge more for his services...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sowell also speaks about the natural tendencies of the majority group to harbor animosities towards the minorities in their various cultures when there is a real or perceived encroachment upon positions that are coveted by the majority. Reading here for the past few weeks more than validates that observation. While asians in general are a minority within this country, they are significantly represented in academia. AA encroaches on the coveted spots for the majority population and of Asians that covet those spots as well. It's understandible.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>madville,</p>
<p>I do not deny for one second that I am concerned about anti-Asian bias in admissions, no matter how subtlely it is expressed. Furthermore, I believe that the only time a student is entitled to a spot is if he is applying to a university that uses a Top X% system.</p>
<p>Based on the research of E&C and the indirect revelations of some admissions officers (e.g. 'yeah, they [Asians] end up competing amongst each other instead of among the group, but it's not discrimination!'), I believe that affirmative action as currently practiced hurts Asians more than it helps.</p>
<p>I've seen posts like:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your group is over-represented. We don't need any more. We need more of others.</p></li>
<li><p>They just did rote memorization. That's nothing to be proud of. They should lose their sense of entitlement.</p></li>
<li><p>We gave them a lot. They should give us a lot back.</p></li>
<li><p>If we don't take race into account, universities will be all Asian.</p></li>
<li><p>You call that discrimination? Give me a break. There's so many of them there, how can they be discriminated against?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I credit the user who is responsible for the words of wisdom found in 1, 2, and 3. She made my skin tougher when it comes to facing anti-Asian sentiments.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At tough schools that actually hold their students to a reasonable standard (schools like Cornell or Michigan or Berkeley), URMs flounder.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Raising hand here as a Cornell grad who finished with a 3.92 gpa. But you probably wasn't talking about me when you made ths sweeping generalization.</p>
<p>“Sowell also speaks about the natural tendencies of the majority group to harbor animosities towards the minorities in their various cultures when there is a real or perceived encroachment upon positions that are coveted by the majority.”</p>
<p>Who are the majority in academia of this country? the white liberal. The white liberal are really concerned about the Asians because they succeed on their own. They would rather have the URM to counterbalance the Asians. Since many URMs have to depend on the white liberal’s preference to get ahead, they are not a threat to the white liberal. That is why the white liberal are so against the Asian and for AA.</p>
<p>I can guarantee you that if you were like one asian kid recently rejected from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Princeton, and Stanford w/:</p>
<p>but instead a Hispanic/Black with...</p>
<p>2400 SAT
800, 780, 780 SAT II's
4.0 UW GPA
Magnet HS, hardest courseload
ALl State Orchestra
Varsity Math team
500 hours volunteering</p>
<p>You'd be accepted. Period. I'll wager money on it. My entire life savings in fact.</p>