<p>So I'll sum this up rather quickly, I'll be applying to law school for the Fall of 2007. I've yet to take my LSAT, but as of right now think I'm going to score somewhere around 160. That's about the score I keep seeing on practice tests, and I figure with another two months of work 160 seems about where I'll end up averaging out. I know 160 is not the best score, however my GPA is strong. I'm currently at UCLA as a History major, and have a 3.74. My question is how much will that GPA offset the lower LSAT? I know schools like Harvard and Yale are out, but I still think I should have a chance at a decent school. Thanks in advance for anybody who helps.</p>
<p>If your GPA is not weighted, then you ahve a pretty good chance. However, it is not only the score on the LSAT and your GPA taht conclude college's decisions. However, I think that you have a very good chance on getting a seat at a decent school. :)</p>
<p>I would suggest running your numbers through the LSAC search engine to see the likelihood of being admitted to certain schools (just based on the numbers ) with your scores and gpa</p>
<p>Anna Ivey, Fomer Dean of admissions at U of chicago law school has a column on vault.com.</p>
<p>She states:</p>
<p>*The most reliable resource for gauging your odds at different schools is the LSAT/GPA calculator provided by the Law School Admission Council (LSAC). It's a bit hard to find -- LSAC buried it under several layers on its site and gave the link a very non-descript name ("LSAC Data Search"), but every law school applicant should bookmark it: </p>
<p><a href="http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearch/Search3.aspx?SidString=%5B/url%5D">http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearch/Search3.aspx?SidString=</a> </p>
<p>I'm a power user of that calculator, and it usually takes me several attempts to load the page at any given time, but keep trying -- it's worth it. Once you're on the calculator page, you'll see two boxes near the top: one for you to fill in your undergraduate GPA, and the other to fill in your LSAT score. For any combination of numbers, the calculator spits out your odds for nearly all of the ABA-approved law schools. You can sort the results alphabetically or by odds. This calculator is especially handy if you're trying to decide how a change in your GPA or your LSAT would affect your odds at different schools. LSAC changed the layout of the results recently to present the odds graphically (using different colored bands and lines), a method I find irritating compared to the old layout, but no matter, it still gets the job done. </p>
<p>These odds aren't perfect predictors, of course. First of all, the odds are based only on raw numbers, and while your raw numbers are highly predictive, they don't get you all the way there. The caliber of your undergraduate institution, your masters degree, your doctorate from Oxford, and your publications would certainly catch an admissions officer's eye, and this database won't reflect those or other variables. See my previous article, "Is Admissions a Numbers Game?" for more on that. </p>
<p>Also, the data underlying the calculator are based on the entering class from the previous year, and past results aren't necessarily going to repeat themselves in the coming cycle. Furthermore, not all schools have agreed to be included in the database. The following schools do not participate: UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UC Hastings, Chicago, Columbia, and Stanford. And finally, the database doesn't break out the data based on legacy status, race, in-state residency, or other factors that can dramatically change any given applicant's chances. </p>
<p>Despite its limitations, the LSAC calculator is still the best way to shape and manage your expectations during the application process, and it certainly beats the self-reported and sometimes fraudulent data on other websites. Stick with the official LSAC data. </p>
<p>*</p>
<p>GPA doesn't offset a bad LSAT score at all. With your numbers, I doubt you have a shot at a T14 school.</p>
<p>The only people with below 3.9's that get into top schools are usually from the very top elite private schools. If noone has ever heard of your school or your school isn't an Ivy or Ivy equivalent, your LSAT score increases in importance because it is the only way of directly comparing you to the broad array of applicants out there.</p>
<p>But the other side of the coin is a high LSAT score (170's) can offset a lower GPA at some schools (example emory)</p>
<p>First I don't much care about going to the Ivy league schools. I know it's a really big deal for some people, but I've got other factors (location and cost) that are equally important to me. Also I'd assume that UCLA is a good undergrad school, people have heard of it, and it is generally farily respected.</p>
<p>Allen,</p>
<p>Example for UCLA:</p>
<p>The following LSAT/GPA data pertains to the fall 2004 entering class:</p>
<p>What It Takes to get in</p>
<p>The following LSAT/GPA data pertains to the fall 2004 entering class:</p>
<p>-Median LSAT: 166 25th – 75th Percentile: 163 – 168</p>
<p>-Median GPA: 3.64 25th – 75th Percentile: 3.47 – 3.84</p>
<p>-Number of applications for 2004: 7,260</p>
<p>-Number accepted for 2004: 983</p>
<p>-Percentage accepted for 2004: 13.5%</p>
<p>For Berkley</p>
<p>-Median LSAT: 165 </p>
<p>25th – 75th Percentile: 161 - 168</p>
<p>-Median GPA: 3.78 </p>
<p>25th – 75th Percentile: 3.63 - 3.9</p>
<p>-Approximate number of applications for one recent year: 7,704 -</p>
<p>Number accepted: 771</p>
<p>-Percentage accepted during one recent sample year: 1040</p>
<p>The class of 2005 had a mean college GPA of 3.77, and a mean LSAT score of 164 (in the 92nd percentile)</p>
<p>I think like undergrad, admissions to the public law schools are going to be straight numbers based looking at very few soft factors. I would advise looking over your practice test to see where you need to improve and work on those areas. IF you are falling down in Logic reasoning or logic games: lool into the powerscore books: the logic games bible and the logic reasoning bibles. From what I heard, the Nova's Master the LSAT is suppose to be good also. </p>
<p>Continue to practice using the superprep and the lastest real LSATs under timed conditions as you will get better with practice.</p>
<p>Hope this helps and good luck to you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only people with below 3.9's that get into top schools are usually from the very top elite private schools. If noone has ever heard of your school or your school isn't an Ivy or Ivy equivalent, your LSAT score increases in importance because it is the only way of directly comparing you to the broad array of applicants out there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have a 3.96 from an Ivy...will this offset a low LSAT?</p>
<p>columbia - depends on how low your LSAT is, and what school you're trying to get into. </p>
<p>But I'm not sure I agree with the quote anyway. If you get a 173 and have a 3.7, you could be from any number of tier 1 through 3 schools, and you will still have a good shot at the top 14.</p>
<p>I've been around 166 on practice tests...any idea where I might have a shot?</p>
<p>One LSAT point is roughly equal to 0.1 GPA points, but of course this varies by school. You can use this fact to match up your stats with the US News numbers.</p>
<p>columbia: With a 3.96 and a 166, you'd have a good shot at a lot of schools, but the calculators at LSAC put you with a better than even probability at Duke, Georgetown, UCLA, and then a lot more further on in the USNWR list.</p>
<p>But a couple of cautions: practice tests don't always equal actual LSAT's. Also, your 3.96 may or may not be a 3.96. In other words, the LSAC organization will recalculate your gpa into a standard format. For instance, if Columbia rates a B+ as 3.7, your gpa will actually go down, as the LSAC people rate an A- as 3.66 or 3.67 (I forget which). B+'s are 3.3 rather than the 3.5 some schools give them. If you re-took any classes to raise your gpa, LSAC will calculate the original grade, not the re-take.</p>
<p>But these are minor issues, since a 3.96 can't possibly be brought so low that you would be out of the running. Good luck with the LSAT, and you'll be just fine for a bunch of really stellar schools !</p>
<p>I know most colleges usually don't allow students to have above a 4.0 GPA, but if yours has an A+ that counts as 4.33 (though is very rare to get), will that throw off the odds that you get through those calculators?</p>
<p>If you get through 3 years with a university gpa of 4.33, more power to you! It wouldn't throw off the calculators.</p>
<p>If this were your gpa, then you would want to try to calculate the academic index, which would also be helpful in understanding how each school weights gpa v LSAT. If you need to know about the academic index, you can get much information off the LSAC website. (As Greybeard esq. might say "research research research". Only he writes very concisely, so he'd probably just say "research". . . . . . )</p>
<p>What about a 177 on the LSAT and a 2.7 GPA? What are my chances? Should I wait and go back to school, or take a job?</p>
<p>With a 2.7/177, you'd have decent chances in the 7-25 range of schools.</p>
<p>Depends what the major is.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt the LSAT would offset such a low GPA at T14 school (even a lower T14 school). </p>
<p>An LSAT point is worth .1 GPA at most schools (except for Boalt which is notoriously GPA hungry). </p>
<p>Adjusting so that the numbers are more balanced, you'd have a 3.4/170 or 3.6/168 or 3.8/166.</p>
<p>In general these nubmers are around the median at most schools outside the top 10, but there are several caveats.</p>
<p>Unless you majored in an engineering discipline or went to a grade deflated school (Rice, MIT) a low gpa would make you look very bad indicating a lacking work ethic. One should also consider the fact that schools adjust your gpa relative to the average gpa of your school and the average score of LSAT takers at your school.</p>
<p>For most undergraduate universities outside the top 30 or so, this adjustment will most likely adjust your gpa lower.</p>
<p>That being said, there is more competition between law schools it seems to raise the interquartile range of their LSAT scores, and LSAT scores are weighed more heavily in USNews than GPA so your chances might not be bad, but I would work hard on explaining that GPA.</p>
<p>It's true that an LSAT point is worth roughly 0.1 GPA points, but a low GPA/high LSAT split is better than the numerically equivalent high GPA/low LSAT split, likely due in part to the higher LSAT weight given by US News.</p>