<p>I hope I'm posting in the right place, but I thought some parents could help me out. I was contacted by a small local business to design a flyer, and I was asked how much I would like for compensation. I have no idea how much to ask for, since I have never been paid for designing. It seems that I always end up working for free (I'm a freshman in college) in order to build up the resume, but here is the chance to learn how to negotiate. Any advice?</p>
<p>Also, any other advice about learning how to negotiate? This summer I plan on doing a research position, but all the research positions want me to work unpaid. I am wondering if it's because of the poor economy, or whether I will always find myself in this kind of situation where I will end up working for free.</p>
<p>I’d suggest that you start by deciding on an hourly rate, remembering that you will have to pay both sides of FICA out of it. Find out how much average independent graphic design pros charge–just call a few and ask–and since you are a student with less experience position yourself under that. Then figure out what the phases and timeline of the project will be, what the deliverables will be at each point, and how much time each of the phases of the project will realistically take: meeting(s) to gather information, draft, meeting(s) to review draft, more or less final version, final edits to that. Note that the deliverables are on both sides: you deliver a draft, they deliver their review, they commit to have required individuals available for information-gathering, etc. You don’t want to be in the position of having to incorporate endless tiny edits for free because they don’t have their act together. What you do is give them a proposal that includes an estimated lump sum for certain deliverables, plus an hourly rate for additional work. That way they know what they are getting, and they know what it will cost them if they choose to be disorganized. Bear in mind that YOU also have to be disciplined: they should not be expected to pay for extra time if you choose to take this opportunity to teach yourself a new software package, or have fun dreaming up a zillion alternative looks that interest you but don’t meet their needs.</p>
<p>I am guessing the company seeking your creativity is a small business that wants to honor your talent-but may be working with a limited budget. I do not know how much time it will take to create the flyer-so I will use a guess on that to be 2 hours(?) I would double the minimum wage and then multiply that by the number of hours you expect it will take to create the flyer (ie-min wage say $8.50 x2=$17/hr x2hrs=$34). This job may lead to others-even full time-you never know where you will get your summer job, and you will be able to use this for your resume) G’Luck!</p>
<p>It would take me maybe an estimated 3 hours (maybe 2) to work on the flyers. If I were to charge 15 dollars, would that be reasonable? Also, I would probably want to meet with this individual to get an idea of what they would like for a flyer. This is a stupid question, but I wouldn’t charge for the actual meeting, correct?</p>
<p>“Do you want to pay for my time hourly? Or by flat rate? I’d normally charge $125 to design a flyer. But this one is really interesting, and I’d be willing to take a little less if you’d allow me to use you as a reference.”</p>
<p>(You are aware that almost no one wants to pay hourly, right?)</p>
<p>^^ Ah, but 4 hours for what? Who is going to be responsible for checking and signing off on the printer’s proof, for example? It may seem like overkill, but I think it’s important to think it through and lay everything out in a business-like way so that everyone is operating from the same set of expectations. It’s like painting: spending a little more time on prep assures a better long term result.</p>
<p>You can give them an initial consultation for free, after which you come up with a simple proposal, but DEFINITELY charge for formal information-gathering meetings AND for review meetings!! It takes your time, right? What if your idea of the time involved in gathering the info for the flyer is 15 minutes, and it ends up being two hours? What if they can’t get it together to have all of the players in place at once, you meet with one person and they give you a strong idea of what they need, and then when the other partner sees the result, he or she doesn’t agree at all and it’s back to the drawing board?</p>
<p>You say it will take you a couple of hours to do the flyers. Are you assuming that they will simply accept whatever you come up with, with no changes? Don’t bet on it.</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who has been a corporate communications manager and consultant, don’t take anything for granted. If they don’t like the result, they will blame YOU, and you won’t get a good reference and you also might not get paid.</p>
<p>And has someone who has done consulting work, assume it will take at least 150% of the time you estimate. Others are giving you good suggestions as to the level of detail you should include in your work proposal – if you are working with a printer, external folks, etc., that can suck up a lot of time. Detail exactly what services your charge will cover.</p>
<p>I like to include all hours worked on a project on an invoice (so as to demonstrate the value fo your time for attending a planning meeting, ets.) and then give a discount on the bill for some items so the client feels they are getting good value.</p>
<p>I think Consolation’s tips are really useful and good advice for professional behavior and expectations. BUT, you are a college freshman and you have never done this work before. It might be overkill to do all the steps suggested at this point. This business asked you to do this partly in the hopes of saving a few $$, I’m betting. How did they get your name? Have they seen your work? How involved is the flyer? (is it mostly type or is there imagery and if so, are you coming up with it?) Where will the flyer be used? Is it something that will be posted around town, or will they also be placing it in the paper? This is relevant, because if they are going to get multiple use out of it, you may want to charge more. Also, as Consolation pointed out, will you just be giving them a digital file or are they going to ask you to oversee reproduction? (I’m assuming that they will probably just xerox it themselves.)</p>
<p>I think $15/hour is way too low. Rates vary but most beginning graphic designers get $20-25/hour as freelancers, at least in my city. I would ask for $100. If they balk, you could point out that they’ll get a professional looking flyer (assuming you know what you’re doing) that they will be able to use in multiple settings and that you think it is a fair fee for the 4+hours you will put into it. Say you will show them 2-3 options that they will be able to choose from (you will come up with them anyway in the course of putting it together and they don’t have to be very different). If you like to draw (and you’re decent at it), that could be another plus – it will make the flyer unique.</p>
<p>The point is to let them know what they are paying for. Many people don’t realize what is involved in producing something as simple as a flyer.</p>
<p>Also, I wouldn’t go into it with a lot of restrictions on what you’re willing to do, or not. Consolation is right that this kind of job can turn out to be a real pain in the ass, but you don’t want to go into it with that kind of attitude. Be willing to be flexible (but don’t be a doormat). Good luck!</p>
<p>Oh, and as for unpaid research positions, this has everything to do with supply and demand. If there are plenty of worthy candidates and not many alternative to unpaid positions, then that’s what’s going to be available. You might be able to ask for a “stipend”. That would be harder for them to say no to than asking to be paid an hourly rate. (But wait until they offer the position to you.)</p>
<p>Given that you’re a student and it’s your first assignment, I think $100 sounds about right for the job ( I work with designers who charge $100 per HOUR). Give them a basic idea of what the job includes : Reviewing needs, creating a first draft, incorporating feedback, and proofing. If they take you through numerous iterations (and they may) - you can decide to absorb it or you can advise them that the project is now “out of scope” and you need to charge more. I would advise against this because you’re new. Tough it out if need be with a primary goal of having a happy client that you can use for a reference. Good luck!</p>
<p>I guess it depends on what type of research position you are looking for. I run a research lab at a Medical School, and often get e-mails from college students looking for paid or unpaid temporary positions. </p>
<p>For me, taking someone in to do a summer research project means using a lot of my time and my technician’s time to train this person. Even if we are talking about juniors in a relevant major with some lab experience, most of the time they will require a lot of training in our particular techniques before they can start “producing” useable data. While being trained, this person will also use a lot of really expensive reagents (that I am buying with my grant money) and will often use some really expensive equipment that could potentially be damaged. I will also typically work with them on getting them up to speed on scientific papers that provide background for the project, and, if necessary, help them write up a report for their college. All-in-all, I often joke that they should be paying me for my time, not the other way around, because this is really more of a one-on-one training experience for the student than a way for me to get some work done.</p>
<p>I have now become very selective and will not take on a student even as an unpaid research intern unless I am absolutely convinced that the student is responsible and hard-working and has at least some lab experience since taking in an underperforming volunteer can be a huge drain on the lab resources.</p>
<p>My son is going to talk to a guy at a company next week to do some part time contracting work and they asked what his rate is. It looks like a meet in person once and then do all of the work over the internet kind of thing. I was going to suggest $15/hour and that he would do the first small job and only charge if they were happy with the work. The work is math and computer science related.</p>
<p>BCEagle, are they paying him as a contractor (i.e., he’d have to pay both halves of SS?)
S1 has found that the going pay rate for student programmer types on his campus is $15+/hr. On a consulting job where he’d have to pay both halves of SS, he asked for $20/hr and the guy didn’t bat an eye. </p>
<p>Your S will find that these skills are very useful and lucrative in this economy.</p>
<p>This research position is usually paid by the college, but because I am from another college they won’t pay me. I was told that the Faculty Advisor won’t pay me because of limited funds. I am thinking about asking my supervisor to ask the Faculty Advisor to make sure, since he kind of dismissed the idea when I brought it up. Also, this position does not require me to work with expensive equipment, I would probably be researching articles/studies and help run subject testing. I guess what irked me is that I found out that another student from my college, who had worked in the same lab before, had been paid through the Faculty Advisor. How am I any different?</p>
<p>Yes, he would be paid as a contractor and have to take care of both sides of SS. I need to find out when SS kicks in as he may make too little for it to be a concern. His tutoring job didn’t withhold SS but did provide a W-2 so there should be a lower limit where it doesn’t get paid. I tried calling Social Security but they referred me to the IRS. I’m not going to call them today. I’ll have a look at the 1040 to see if the number is there or maybe look at the SE form.</p>
<p>I ran a few small businesses when I was in my 20s and more recently am a bit familiar with the tax issues. I’m sure a lot of things have changed since then. This might also mean having to file a Business Profits Tax in my state. I’m hoping that there won’t be any requirements for the state where the business is located.</p>
<p>I do agree that it’s a great opportunity and a good resume builder. I guess we should ask $20 and see what happens.</p>
<p>I didn’t read all the posts to this thread, but if you ask for less than $25/hour, you are permitting them to take advantage of you.</p>
<p>I was at an Easter dinner in the Boston area on Sunday, and one of the teens was telling us how she is paid $20/hour – for babysitting – and school aged children at that.</p>
<p>To the OP - it certainly is a very good idea to double-check whether there is any way for you to get paid by the college.</p>
<p>As far as why someone else was paid before and not you - here are some of the possible reasons. A university or a lab may have a special grant for a few years that provides fellowships for undergraduate research - if the program ends, they will no longer be able to pay. A faculty member may have a grant to support their research program and use the grant to pay a stipend to research assistants. If the grant does not get renewed (which happens all too often now in the era of budget cuts), they won’t have the money. Some universities have programs where students have to submit applications for research fellowships for the summer fairly early in the year (usually by February or March) - if you did not know about it and did not apply in time, now may be too late and the only option is to work for free.</p>
<p>Ultimately, after you do your due diligence to verify that the faculty member is not making a mistake, it will be up to you to decide whether getting this experience on your resume is worth it. Because of the cuts in grant funding in biomedical sciences, I have actually heard of some experienced scientists with PhD degrees who are willing to work for free for a few months to beef up their resumes with new techniques and experience.</p>