<p>anniery - Down the road apiece (given her still flowering maturity), maybe have your daughter read these posts as well. It could generate some interesting family conversation as well as have her consider facets of the college selection process that never crossed her mind.</p>
<p>The trouble with seventeen year olds is that parents are on a 'need to know' basis. As they should be in most instances.</p>
<p>Imagine a headstrong girl with an academic father proclaiming her undying affection for a party school? :) Got that picture immediately. Subconciously or not, she's neatly avoiding expectations and pushing his buttons at the same time. Clever girl.</p>
<p>Now...how to outsmart the fox.....and give her a chance to work her way out of the fox hole.</p>
<p>I'd let her go on and on about party Heaven but I might insist that she put a few back-ups on her list--so that dear old dad doesn't have a stroke. </p>
<p>Then, quickly, I'd try to get her into as many overnight visits as possible between now and May 1st when she has to make a decision. God willing, she will fall in love with another school--and think it was all her idea.</p>
<p>10-4? Catch you on the flip side. Over n' out.</p>
<p>No sense in having senior year be a fight between you and your daughter. Let her apply to all the schools. Then, tell her that when she gets her acceptances, you will re-visit the schools she is accepted at and interested in to make a final choice. But let her know that at that time, the choice will be hers. It has to be, but it may change between now and May. It won't change between now and tomorrow, so let her apply to al of them, then let it rest. See how all of you feel in the spring.</p>
<p>Great advice here. I am on the run but had one thought which hasn't come up yet. I agree with all that it will be counterproductive to try to direct her away from the currently beloved school. I know that a lot changes with some kids between October and April.</p>
<p>My one thought is that there is another avenue for you to pursue. Not now, definitely not now. Some parents on other threads have spoken of the "parameters" they have set up for their kids once in college. Eg, you maintain a 2.0 (3.0 whatever the number) and we are the full payers for your college education. Fail to make that grade and you begin to pick up your own tab. I'm not expressing it well and would never suggest you put it in these words, but the idea is not to direct her choice of school, but to establish your expectations for her performance. It's the performance you're worried about here. I would do it at the right time - way later in this year - and in a positive vein; as part of a broader discussion of the family planning together for a successful college experience, what her allowance will be, what she will do summers etc.</p>
<p>btw, I can imagine a girl such as yours blossoming in the areas of her strength at a less academically demanding school, pouring herself into community service, leadership etc. These can be equally key ingredients (or more so) than academic excellence. So your mission may be to help her find this college path instead of the party hardy to the exclusion of all else path, rather than a particular institution.</p>
<p>I think I have a different take on things that several of the latest posters. I don't think the DD is out to tweak dad or is doing things for effect. I think its what she really wants. As the OP wrote "Our daughter is a very bright kid, but young for her class and has never been hugely academically driven." So this is not something new, the distaste for academic pursuits is long-standing.</p>
<p>My advice to the OP is this: maybe its time to row with the river instead of trying to head upstream. Even if one isn't an academic star one can still be successful in life, a loving parent and spouse, and do well in a career. I understand where your husband is coming from; a student at a middling school with an undistinguished record is not starting out with a push out the gate. On the other hand I think that what often determines success in the real working world isn't intelligence or academic pedigree; the people who are getting ahead are the ones that bring a fire to what they do and a belief in what they're doing. They work hard, and they enjoy their job. The good news is your daughter HAS shown passion and interest, just not for academic subjects. </p>
<p>So I'd say work with what you got. Help her understand that to get a career going you have to have someone believe in you in order to get hired (or promoted). Many kids use strong academic performance at a good school to help create this impression (and the recruiters come searching for these kids), but this isn't her. Fine. It just means its that much more important to identify her career interests while IN college, to get internships in fields that may be of interest to test them out, to get summer jobs related to these interests rather than a job flipping burgers, and so on. There are several exellent books about how to do this; the classic tome is "What Color is Your Parachute" and for college students I highly recommend "Major in Success" by Combs which is filled with anecdotes of students doing just that. </p>
<p>Given that she's bright but just not that into school, watch her blossom when she sinks her teeth into something that really fascinates her as a career interest. I can understand your husband's disappointment since his life work is academics and his child isn't following, but nature has a funny way of evening the score. If its any consolation, someday when she has kids at least one of them will be the inquisitive & intellectual type that will in turn drive HER crazy!</p>
<p>All that being said, I'd still see if there is room for her to decide on a more challenging college. Peer influence is big, and even if it doesn't motivate her to top grades I think that just being around other kids who expect great things of themselves will motivate her to find her own way to accomplish the same (even if its not thru the classroom). Being around kids on a 4-year vacation can quickly sap drive and cause goals to be ignored until quite late.</p>
<p>You could be talking about my middle child. Very bright, personable, many diverse interests, lots of studying isn't really one of them. He does what he has to do and moves on. He is a junior at a state U. </p>
<p>What we've discovered is that not being surrounded by highly competitive students has worked in his favor. He feels competent where he is. He feels like one of the kids who "get its." He's had a few opportunities to tutor friends who didn't "get it". One professor actually noticed him and appeared to like him, which gave my S the nerve to make an appointment and talk about declaring a major in the prof's dept. At a state school, profs are usually not overwhelmed with hoards of anxious overachievers banging on their doors. The prof was flattered, happy to see him, and is now helping him with advising. </p>
<p>As he has gained confidence and enthusiasm for learning as opposed to feeling overwhelmed by the relentless competitiveness at his high school, his grades have gone up steadily and he is beginning to take an interest in the idea of post-graduate study. In my heart of hearts, I think he is where he needs to be. The demands are enough to keep him challenged and working, but he has time to socialize and relax as well. The kids take weekend trips to nearby places, they go into the city for shows, they have fun. The school has a high graduation rate, the kids are serious about getting their degrees, they're not dropping out. This is giving him more time to grow up -- and he needed it.</p>
<p>Food for thought, 1Down...</p>
<p>One of my daughter's two parents [not me] wished for a school other than the one our D felt much love for. </p>
<p>Turns out, D was right and she is really thriving where she is. I could not have guessed it in advance.
I'm with 1-down on this one--there is often an "it" to this whole thing that you only feel when "it" is "it" to the one IT matters most to.</p>
<p>I have to say....not every student is into "high caliber" schools. Some kiddos are looking for other characteristics in colleges. DD has also chosen schools which are in the match/safety range, and no higher. However, most important is that SHE is happy with those choices. I am not going to college....she is. Luckily, I happen to really like all of her choices too...but even if I didn't, she will be living there for four years (I hope) and she needs to make the decision about where she feels she will be best placed. Bottom line...we are openly discussing her choices even now that the applications have been sent. SHE needs to make this decision. I would NOT want to make it for her. If it doesn't work out...it has to be because she figured that out, not me.</p>
<p>1Down, thank you for sharing your son's story. That is exactly what I was trying to say in my post. I think that my daughter will also thrive in a school where she has a chance to be a star, rather constantly struggling upstream against better, more ambitious students. Your post reassured me that she's on the right path with the list of schools she's chosen to apply to - thanks!</p>
<p>This post and all the responses have been great. Anniery, my dd sounds ljust ike yours. The twist with mine is two-fold- 1) her ECs are very intense and she has focused so much on those that little things like SAT prep and final exams have gotten the short end of the stick , and 2) the greatest irony and surprise for me is that she loves my alma mater (now a more selective LAC). It is a clear safety for her, especially with the legacy factor. We visited last weekend, and granted it is a better place academically as well as selectivity-wise than when I was there 25+ years ago, but I was very unhappy there with the quality of education at the time. I was the oldest of six kids, got major merit money, and had to give up my dream school to attend there. So I'm biting my tongue big time to keep from saying anything at all to influence my dd's decision, and it is tough! My hope is that if it is where she winds up, that the academic environment has improved enough to give her a more satisfying expereince. BTW, the party scene seems the same- and I did have fun! Maybe I'm projecting a bit too much. My reservations remain on this forum alone, so thanks for the opportunity to vent!
My hope for all or us, anniery, is that our d/s's find fulfillment both personally and academically at their ultimate college choices, made only by them. Amen.</p>
<p>While I agree that there is no point in pushing a student into a school they don't want to attend...Be honest, what would the posters' reactions be if this was a male student--very bright but not motivated? He wants to go to a party school to have fun? </p>
<p>Katy Bar the Door-- I remember some harsh CC comments about these kinds of boys--yet the very bright girl gets a pat on the head? Hmmmmm. I dunno. I think it is worth a bit of a push to try to get her to broaden her horizons. What if we assume Dad The Prof does knows a thing or two about his D and the school in question?</p>
<p>This story is a slight twist on the very common story of bright but unmotivated boys. With those boys, the trick is to get them into challenging (but not overwhelming) environments. These boys tend to aim for the average until they mature. If they are in a place with high standards, the average is very high indeed.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
<p>Also, lots of my son's peers would like to sidestep their parent's expectations. That too is a typical teen fantasy.</p>
<p>"""Also, lots of my son's peers would like to sidestep their parent's expectations. That too is a typical teen fantasy"""</p>
<p>Parents expectations sidestepped - a teen fantasy?? uuummmm Guess we are way off the mark here - our expectation was for our kids to go to college!!!!! We did not expect them to be the top of the pile - we did not expect them to be over the top - we did not expect them to be perfect............. but we did expect them to make a good choice of schools - for each of them individually. Some how LOL they chose exactly what was a good fit for themselves..... DS to a highly selective/ranked LAC of his choosing - we had NO input on that one at all - and was perfect ''fit'' - DD to a large state U - tho DD had been accepted at a couple of higher ranked schools - she did make the choice of the less ranked school because it was a perfect ''fit'' for her - and she was absolutely RIGHT!!!!!</p>
<p>Sometimes they just KNOW!!!!!</p>
<p>I don't think this is sidesteping at all - I think this is making the right choice for one's self - and not a fantasy at all.</p>
<p>Why so twitchy? Most** don't seriously sidestep expectations--though they fantasize about doing so. I hear them talking about it--even the ones who attend Ivies and top LACs. They feel the pressure. They dream about getting away from that pressure. That is natural, right? Heck, I still feel pressure from MY parents! </p>
<p>Besides, historically, teens have sidestepped in tiny ways, grunting rather than elaborating, equivocating etc. AKA teen rebellion.</p>
<p>**Average teens. Does not refer to perfect children who do not give their parents a moment of worry.</p>
<p>OP FWIW If she is at a big state-U there will be a lot of bright students. Many kids end up attending the state U due to financial reasons - including the bright ones. As to the issue of difficulty of coursework - I'm not so sure that the classes at the elite U's and LACs are that much more "difficult" than at decent state U's. Generally the same textbooks are used, and same materials covered. The way the material is covered and mastery assessed may be different (more discussion in class at LAC's and private U's, more papers/essay tests VS. more multiple choice tests /few papers at state U's), but the content is similar. The experience, the participation and student involvement, the intensity and academic excitement may be different - but that doesn't make the actual class more difficult. In general, it is easier to learn if you are in a class that you are actively involved in and participate in. The OP's daughter might not find an "elite" school more difficult due to the involvement factor. If she was my DD, I would also have her add a few academic reaches to her application list. Decisions can be made after acceptances come in. And yes, have her do lots of overnight visits. My gut feeling is she choosing the party-U due to comfort factor -she has a connection to it, friends there etc. If she can see herself with friends in other schools her options will expand. And, if in April she still thinks Pary-U is her best option, and it is best for you financially also, let her go for it. Most party-U's also have lots of serious students.</p>
<p>I haven't read through all these answers so excuse me if I repeat what has already been said. First of all your D will change her mind a lot this year, most friends go to the state school and talk it up a lot. Both my kids went through phases of wanting to go to the state honors college and my hubby loved the idea as the price was basically free. We made them visit other schools just to compare and did not tell them they couldn't go anywhere. My S was adimant that he would not go to a college under 5,000 students. He is at Pomona with 1,500 students! When he visited he changed his mind and also a teacher at school took him aside who graduated from CMC and told him he would be crazy to turn down the opportunity. Then other kids who did not get accepted told him they would gladly trade places. He made him own decision and did a total turn around. My D picked a saftey school and not the one I would have chosen but we let her choose and she is happy and doing well. I am sure she will get into grad school and probably end up with better grades and less stress then if she had chosen a very competitive program. It will work out. Just stay calm give your input and allow the process to occur. Best of luck and keep us informed.</p>