<p>What would you do (if anything) if your child, a junior in high school, is doing fine in all her subjects except one? D is struggling mightily with pre-calc. She has a good tutor, but that hasn't translated into higher marks. She's panicking on tests. The teacher couldn't care less. So far D is on track to get a 70-75 for the year.</p>
<p>Will colleges see her as a washout, or can they discern that math isn't her thing and be forgiving? What would you suggest to mitigate this disaster?</p>
<p>I'm sad because she has worked so hard for so long, and her GPA is being destroyed by this one bad grade. </p>
<p>She wants to major in environmental science. She loves biology but isn't interested in pre-med. </p>
<p>Any suggestions would be much appreciated! Thanks for letting me vent.</p>
<p>Argh! I feel for your D. How did she do in math in previous years?<br>
Two suggestions. 1. when applying either she or GC can point out that GPA was affected by a single grade. 2. in senior year, your D should take another year of math, but not Calc ( no matter how much pressure the school puts on students to take Calc). S1 took Advanced Math, which is very likely what some other schools call Discrete Math. He did just fine in the admissions process.</p>
<p>macnyc, my son was inconsistent in math from grade school on. He'd do really well and get into an advanced class where he'd slide and end up in a basic class where he'd do really well, etc. Eventually he just gave it up as he couldn't find a class that suited his level of interest and expertise. He was fast to grasp the concepts but slow in application.</p>
<p>He didn't take math at all senior year and as the focus of his application was really humanities and arts driven this didn't seem to hurt him in admissions.</p>
<p>How did your daughter do on the math SATI? If consistently on the low side this would show that math's just not her thing. If higher than her precalc experience then maybe precalc's just not her thing. Either way she could have a math teacher or GC talk to the issue in their recommendations or in a separate addendum to her application.</p>
<p>Don't despair! One bad grade doesn't wreck an application. I know it seems that everyone else is breezing through but if you scratch the surface you'll find that many kids who get into selective colleges swallowed a "C" along the way. The challenge is to compensate or possibly explain the discrepancy in the application package.</p>
<p>The math is still learnable, and summer courses in precalculus (and distance learning courses in precalculus) abound. But, yeah, I feel for you, because someone as diligent as your daughter would usually expect to proceed smoothly through the high school's program. In fact, most school math programs are poorly designed, and sooner or later kids get caught at the higher level of math by the background they didn't gain when studying lower levels of math. </p>
<p>This happened to my son's friend in Algebra II. He took Algebra I freshman year, geometry sophomore year, and Alg. II junior year. He got a D for the year. He then went to summer school, and got a B. They apparently averaged the two grades and put a C on his transcript (this is my understanding from what my son told me). He took an easy math class senior year. He did not take a precalculus, but something easier. My son says that it is a geometry and algebra review for most of the year. It did not impact his friend's admission into college as a business major! This surprised me b/c I thought that math is very important for business majors. He was accepted into schools where the math midrange runs around 520-600. His sat math score was around 600.</p>
<p>My suggestion would be to look into summer school to retake the class if they will average the 2 scores, should she improve her grades.</p>
<p>Also, a parent told me that her son had a D in chemistry as junior. He did not have any problem gaining admissions to some very good schools. He went in as a computer science major.</p>
<p>My son also had a dismal year in pre-calc. junior year. This year as a senior he took College Alegebra/Trig. My daughter did the reverse taking college alg/trig junior year then pre-calc senior year. Both were accepted to several colleges. Our school does not allow re-takes and averaging of grades so that wasn't an option. In their HS, both of these classes were very similar, kept them in math and gave them a through understanding of what they might have missed junior year. Actually, daughter did not do badly in 11th grade pre-calc but had a lousy teacher and did not feel prepared for calculus.</p>
<p>SBmom, The easy math class is not statistics. My son told me that it is a math class offered to seniors that did not pass our state's exit exam for math (known as the High School Proficiency Assessment), but he says that other students are allowed to take this class too.</p>
<p>I know everyone on cc says that Statistics is the easy AP math class but when my S took it as a senior, he didn't find it to be so easy. He made a "b" in the class and got a 4 on the exam which is the exact grade/score he got in AP Calc in his jr. year. </p>
<p>At our school, those lookng for a less rigorous math course take discrete math senior year (honors pre-calc is the prerequisite). Another class they can take whose only pre-req. is Alg.II is a class called Functions and Modeling. I'm not exactly sure what that is though.</p>
<p>I had issues with the same class as your daughter, but mine centered around the teacher as well. I could rant and rave for hours about the teacher, but the fact of the matter is that I got so fed up with the teacher's methods--and so discouraged by my experiences with him--that I let my effort level drop in his class. As much as I can say that I would have had a different (better?) experience with a different teacher, in the end I was the one who dealt with my discouragement by throwing up my hands and coasting through (not for the entire time, but enough). </p>
<p>Your daughter gets serious credit from me for sticking in there and working with a tutor to try to improve her situation. I completely understand her testing panic and I offer my complete sympathies. </p>
<p>I would get so freaked out about finishing on time when I sat down to take a test that I couldn't concentrate on the problems, and I definitely noticed the difference when I sat down to take the PSAT--I went into panic mode in the math portions just as I did in math class at school and I ended up with a 57 on the math section (as opposed to a 77 verbal and 80 writing). I had never had that problem with math before, and the 57 was lower than both my previous year's 63 and my SAT 690 from later in the year (when I had calmed down and lost the panic). Unfortunately, the 57 dragged down my other two scores and stuck me in the 'Commended' slot instead of giving me a shot at being a merit finalist as just reaching my previous year's score would have. </p>
<p>I'm so grateful that I haven't had the panic problem forever and that it didn't last through to the following year. I think the fact that the teacher got a bit more laid back about time for me as the year went on really helped me (I think he realized that finishing was a problem). Is it possible for your daughter to ask the teacher for extra time so that she can do the work as slowly as she needs to and just know that she doesn't have to panic about the time? Who knows, it might help her self confidence even if it's too late for her grade. From personal experience, I think the toughest part is the confidence blow, and having something to help her feel better about her abilities might really help her get over her panic and the frustration of this class. </p>
<p>I'm sure that your daughter's chances will not be completely derailed by this one bad grade. It's a liability, but she can get around it and she will survive. Also, she still has plenty of time to show an upward trend and get help from her guidance counselor to explain the grade. Best of luck!</p>
<p>One bad grade can lower a GPA. Some teachers seem to prefer certain students to others to the point of purposely giving a lower grade on writing assignments, just because they don't like the student's work. I've seen that happen. My suggestion is to finish out the year, and perhaps have the student talk to the GC about the situation. Someone in the school needs to be informed. I'm sure teachers have good reasons for getting frustrated with students, but it seems to happen to kids who are not good in that subject to begin with. Once that starts to happen in a class, it can easily go downhill.</p>
<p>A vast majority of colleges accept few if any strait A students so this one slip up should not be too significant come senior year and college application time. Our hs's precalc/calc AP teacher is teriffic and loved by most of his students. However he was a very hard grader and many student got there first and only C in his class. </p>
<p>If your daughter must take math next year it is likely that the only college prep courses offered will be statistics and calculus.Perhaps she should check to see if there is a particularly good teacher scheduled to instruct either of these courses. Teachers do make a big difference for many students.</p>
<p>^^That happened to me. I worked pretty hard one quarter but when grades came out I was a bit surprised, so I saw my teacher and went over the grades. I was surprised to see that my participation grade (5% of the total) was an 85% since I had been trying to participate and didn't think that I had done badly. I listened in class and I even took notes during some lectures (literally only one other girl in the class took notes, and only sometimes...please understand that the majority of the class simply ignored the teacher since he was so useless). When I questioned the 85, he tried to defend my grade by saying that it didn't even affect my final score--then added it up and realized that whoops, yes, the difference in percentage points did knock me down a grade, whoops but oh well. </p>
<p>Jerk. </p>
<p>The participation grade really made me angry. A friend in the class (who's naturally good at math and doesn't need to ever listen to the teacher to understand the material) just read through most of the classes under her desk and she got an A as her final grade. I don't know what her classroom participation grade was in particular, but her grade was too close to 100 for her participation grade to have ben below a 90%, and plenty of other kids who stared into space throughout the year got A's for participation because they did well anyway. </p>
<p>I guess I just think that participation is an awfully subjective thing to grade for math class. </p>
<p>Make sure that the teacher knows how hard your daughter is working...</p>
<p>If you D can retake the class during the summer and get a good grade, do it, even if it won't change the grade on the transcript. If that's not possible, consider tutoring. </p>
<p>If she feels comfortable enough to do so after summer school or tutoring, have her take the SAT II Math 1c or even 2c for practice. See how she scores. If it's above a 600, have her take it "for real" in the fall. The score on the test will convince a college that she has learned and mastered the material, despite the grade. Basically, the message doing this sends is..okay, I had a bit of difficulty but ultimately, I did learn the material. It's a good reason to overlook a lousy grade.</p>
<p>At our school jrs. and srs. are allowed to leave school early and take one class per semester at the local comm. coll. Maybe your D could do that and take a math she could use for college credit.</p>
<p>macnyc
S has had similar problems with the pre-calc as given in NYState. He was in the honors track and had the teacher who had been "around" the longest and was pretty burnt out and waiting out his retirement as years end.We got a neighbor genius girl to tutor and S made it through the standardized tests just fine,including the Regents. We have numerical grading in our district and he got about an 88 with the Regents grade added into the final grade formula. How does your child do when the standardized testing comes into play?Maybe that will save their grade as well.Don't forget, the transcript the college will see only includes the final grade for the year.
When senior year rolled around (his current year) the GC tried to talk him into AP Calc (one of only two options a/v to him b/c of the Honors track).S and I were having no part of that..he didnt need it for his projected major and the type of colleges he was applying to (specific choices b/c of major and very well researched as to requirements).Then the Math teacher who gave him such a hard time also tried to talk him into it! Well, we stood firm and he's taking AP Statistics (the other "only"choice).He's doing okay,not great but not needing a tutor and made it through the AP exam last week.Not sure what his grade will be on the Ap but would like a decent one as it will waive a Stat requirement for his major at his new college .By the way,part of our arguement with GC was that his major does require Statistics but doesnt require Calc.God luck to your child I hope it all works out!
Just a reminder...S visibly relaxed when he realized the transcript the colleges see only has that last final grade on it,not the 4 quarter grades from the school year! It truly helped him focus his efforts on that dreaded Regents thats coming up for your kid.</p>
<p>A math teacher can have a tremendous impact as I have seen from two kids, both of whom suffered from a teacher who was very bright but couldn't communicate. If the teacher had a personality and cared the kid did well. If not, the kid suffered. I tried talking to both "bad" teachers but gave up as they couldn't have cared less. I spent a fortune on tutoring for the one kid who had straight As in math until he hit this roadblock and this is a kid who taught himself chemistry.
I finally wrote a brief letter to the school administration when they sought money for the annual giving campaign and explained that I'd spent what they would've received.
I don't believe one C will kill an app. Most colleges recognize the odd situation and if they're smart look at "ratemyteacher.com" to see how bad a teacher really is.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the wonderful suggestions! I'm a lot calmer now. This board is truly wonderful.</p>
<p>A big part of the problem is that D's teacher is so unsympathetic toward her. I actually think he's confusing her with someone else (it's a large class). D goes to a math and science magnet school, and I think some of the teachers prefer to focus on the genius kids, rather than those who need help.</p>
<p>D's tutor is going to start giving her timed practice tests in order to help her work more quickly. She does all her homework and takes very complete notes in class.</p>
<p>I've contacted the department head to ask if a summer pre-calc class or distance learning class can be averaged in. It's worth asking! I never would have thought of that on my own in a gazillion years.</p>
<p>For those who asked, my daughter received a 680 on the math portion of the SAT1. Although not great by CC standards, it placed her in the 91st percentile. I realize that the SAT math, however, is much easier than what's covered in pre-calc.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the wonderful suggestions!</p>