<p>JustAMom, he could do a lot worse than Temple or Pitt. I’m sure he would be happy at either, and certainly would appreciate all of the culture at, and around both of those schools, as opposed to nothing but farmland. If he has any questions about TU, feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Pitt does have access to the Mecca that is Primanti Bros, and Temple does have the advantage of being in driving range of the ocean (although I am not a Philly fan).</p>
<p>Temple and Pitt are good schools, I would just normally recommend either CMU on quality or UMD on value - it is at least as good in engineering as Temple and Pitt and is much cheaper. Plus you get Baltimore.</p>
<p>How is Baltimore the first city you think of when you talk about UMD? UMD is inside the DC beltway. Obviously it is still right down the road from Baltimore, but how that is the first city you think of just boggles my mind. haha</p>
<p>At any rate, are we sure this kid is looking to stay in PA or within a certain distance?</p>
<p>I’m beginning to think this thread is more of a rant than someone asking for help…for a friend.</p>
<p>^That much was obvious from the beginning.</p>
<p>UMD OOS is like $13K more a year than Temple in state. How is that value?</p>
<p>
seriously, what difference does it make?? This forum is about sharing information. If you have nothing to add, don’t post. Maybe ONE kid and/or parent will read this and learn from Penn State’s policies. I help a lot of my kids’ friends. Their parents never went to college and they are often lost in bureaucracies and trust the system too much.<br>
Honestly, I have NEVER heard of a college that would block a perfectly qualified kid from their major FOREVER AND EVER with attempted blackmail.</p>
<p>@GLOBALTRAVELER and cosmicfish - thank you so much for your insight. This was helpful in understanding the situation.</p>
<p>@diontechristmas - I am not sure which schools he is considering. I agree that Temple or Pitt would be good choices, engineering wise and fiscally. He considered applying to CMU in high school but the cost was much higher than PSU and he doesn’t qualify for financial aid. UMD might be a good choice too, his gf is in college in MD 
I don’t know if any PSU campus in the eastern part of the state has a BSME. PSU-Behrend has the bachelor program but it’s wayyyyy out in Erie. </p>
<p>Thanks again for the positive responses, I will let you know how it turns out.</p>
<p>
What does your “rant” add to this forum? If you were seriously interested in helping future PSU kids and their parents you would have posted it on the PSU forum. But the good news is that now that you have some knowledge you can save the rest of your “friends” from the evils of PSU engineering…FOREVER AND EVER.</p>
<p>
uh duh because this is the Engineering Forum and this concerns the Engineering Department at Penn State…
This doesn’t concern other majors. I am pretty sure if he wanted to change to English that would be allowed.</p>
<p>Penn State Harrisburg has a BS in ME.</p>
<p>I dont see the point of this post. He was an Engineering Science major which is NOT Mech E, gets decent grades in classes that aren’t Mech E (in fact, they’re barely even engineering) and doesnt get accepted? He wants to walk into a program that’s totally different without even taking any prereq courses to prepare? On top of that, he clearly didnt understand or research the school and department’s policy on major declaration? Am I supposed to feel bad? Maybe he should’ve worked a little harder and prepared for it and done some research. Sorry if I sound blunt here, but I hate when people shift blame and play the “Woe is me” game instead of taking responsibility for their own situations</p>
<p>^
I think you need to go back and read post #1. Most of your questions are answered there.
You are making some very incorrect assumptions. You also might want to research what Engineering Science is at Penn State. If you are still confused then ask nicely and I will make every attempt (nicely) to explain it to you again.
I hate it when people go off without bothering to read the entire situation. What is with the hostility??</p>
<p>photonzyx - Thanks for the tip!! :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see your point but this particular student was starting his junior year which means the 5th semester. Almost all of the engineering programs are similar for the first 2 years (Calc I,II,III,Linear Algebra,Chem I,II,Physics I,II , Intro CS course & Social Science/Humanities/English)…so changing to ME in his 5th semester was not going to be that big of an impact.</p>
<p>I am not that familiar with ME programs but the only ME courses he would not have would be all that Statics/Dynamics/Thermo stuff that some schools want in the sophomore year. </p>
<p>Those deficiencies are NOT enough to say that you could NEVER be admitted into the program.</p>
<p>Now I could see the other rules coming into play like enrollment limits, etc but I just do not think that a 19 year old should have to sign a bunch of paperwork just to declare a major nor have to be familiar with a bunch of bylaws. I mean I attended a school (albeit 20 years ago) just as big as Penn State and changing majors in engineering was not that involved within the first 4-5 semesters.</p>
<p>Texas wasn’t restrictive about changing majors in engineering when I went there, either. Of course, it was also VERY easy to get admitted in the first place. I applied to UT only, and knew I would get admitted. I don’t think I even had to list majors on my application. Today, each applicant has to list a first and second choice major, and it has to be more specific than “engineering.” My son listed “biomedical engineering” first and “biology” second. It was a hard decision for him. If he hadn’t gotten into biomedical, he probably would have gone to a different school. If he decides he doesn’t like biomedical, it would be easy to switch to biology, but not too easy to switch to a different kind of engineering.</p>
<p>(I post this just to point out that things ARE different than they were 20 years ago. UT’s total enrollment was 48,000 when I attended, and it’s 50,000 now - not that much bigger.)</p>
<p>Justamom - I did read post #1. Here’s further fidelity addressing individual lines of your original post:</p>
<p>“he did so well in his classes his advisor thought he should enter the Honors Engineering Science program at University park as a junior.” - Ok, he’s recommended for the Honors ENGINEERING SCIENCE program which is NOT Mech E.</p>
<p>“He signed a paper last spring where he put “engineering science” above “mechanical engineering” when he declared his major.” - Read one of the other posts on page one which has a link for the school’s policy towards major changes. He clearly defined his major as Eng Science and entered as a junior without being familiar with the policy.</p>
<p>“School started last week and he has discovered his course work in engineering science is nothing like he thought. He really really wants to major in Mechanical Engineering. He is overwhelmed and feels unprepared for these classes.” - Unprepared because he didnt have the requirements to be a Mech E undergrad. Take a look at Penn State’s curriculum:</p>
<p>[University</a> Bulletin: University Course Descriptions](<a href=“http://bulletins.psu.edu/bulletins/bluebook/university_course_descriptions.cfm?letter=E&dept=E_SC]University”>http://bulletins.psu.edu/bulletins/bluebook/university_course_descriptions.cfm?letter=E&dept=E_SC)</p>
<p>The first two years which is not even close to a ME curriculum. “Weird, Wild and Wonderful Materials and Devices”? “Disappearing w/out a Trace: New Engineering Ideas in Energy & Biomedicine”? “Basic Nanofabrication Processes”? I dont see how those correlate to Statics, Dynamics, Calculus, Differential Equations, Strengths of Materials, Thermodynamics, Fluid Mechanics.</p>
<p>“He asked to switch his classes and switch to the Dept of Mechanical engineering.
His advisor said no way, the Dean said no way. He asked his advisor from last year to get involved and he said there was nothing he could do.” - Again, he failed to understand the policy. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that their policy is valid, but it’s their policy and he shouldve understood that before signing up as a junior into the Eng. Science program. I’m not trying to be hostile, but I find it irritating when I see posts bashing and blaming an instutition for the fault of the individual.</p>
<p>Justamomof4, thanks for the heads up. I am glad to know about the limited access majors, and the funding problems that have lead to the need to declare a major by late sophomore year, and the signing of an agreement that allows for no flexibility. I agree that for a first generation college kid, he had no ability to get advice at home, likely had a parent that had never heard of CC forums, and got BAD ADVISING from the satellite campus. His naivite allowed him to be screwed by PSU. </p>
<p>He is not a suave and experienced student with generations of engineers in the family to guide him. HE DID NOT GET THE GUIDANCE he needed to UNDERSTAND what he was doing and what he was signing.</p>
<p>^ I doubt it is a funding issue. It likely has more to do with ABET setting a limit on class size in their accreditation standards, so for extremely popular majors like ME, they have to limit enrollment.</p>
<p>PSU Engineering Science:
Not sure how this is not engineering…</p>
<p>
Not true at all. The Curriculum for the first two years at his satellite campus for Mech Eng and Engineering science is identical save for one course.
In Eng Sci they take Math 231 - Honors Calc & Ventor Analysis (4 cr.) and in Mech Eng they take the two credit Calc of Several Variables - second semester of sophomore year.<br>
Actually he had to take a harder math course for Eng Sci.</p>
<p>With the rest you are mostly correct, HOWEVER… this is a 19 year old kid, first generation college student, no mentors other than his advisor at the Satellite Campus. He had never been to UP much less spent 10 minutes in their engineering department.
His advisor strongly urged him into the ES program. He told him how selective it was blah blah blah. So, yes he trusted the system and his advisor. Again - a 19 year old kid with no other mentors.<br>
Finally, he had only been on the UP campus for a few days - well within the add/drop period for changing any courses per the university policy. It’s not like he took a semester or two of ES and then decided to change.</p>
<p>Furthermore, he asked the DME if he could take a year off and then re-apply to ME. They said no, at Penn State he can never major in ME. He was through and ES was his only option.</p>
<p>And I am sure he has no idea that ABET can set a limit on class size, resulting in the fact that once he does not declare ME as a major, HE NEVER CAN. </p>
<p>A 19 yo often has no idea of the nuances of majors, changing majors, limited access majors or enrollment control. And a first generation student would have little assistance with advising outside of his actual advisor. I know at our state flagships, advising is not much better than some of the high school advising. You have to be savvy. You often have to have a sibling or parent or family member looking out for you. And if he is commuting, he likely does not have the same group of fellow students that he sits around with after hours. He is less likely to have a frat brother or suitemate to say “Don’t sign that until you know that you cannot change your mind.”</p>
<p>If anything, this thread is very informative because (to me) now a student has to factor in things like a major’s enrollment limits and the decision on a major EARLY in the process.</p>
<p>Personally, with this knowledge, I would now tell students to factor this in EVEN BEFORE choosing a school. I feel that you have a bunch of years after college to worry about all the rigid laws and structure…and college is supposed to be a time to have fun and “find yourself”…not know every single item of a plan and every single pro/con at age 19.</p>
<p>Sidenote: Glad I decided on a broad major like math.</p>