Based on the 2013 data:
quora.com/How-rare-are-triple-800s-on-the-SAT-Math-Level-2-Physics-and-Chemistry-Subject-Tests
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We can do similar calculation based on the available 2015 tables.
I’m not sure if this piece of information is at all useful, but assuming we wanted to know, it’s probably safe to assume that Math II scores are fairly correlated with Physics and Chemistry scores, the number of scorers will be significantly higher than (.19)(.09)(.12)N, where N is the number of test-takers who took all three.
However unless we have data or a good random sampling, I feel like putting a confidence interval on N is already not that easy. Note that there are thousands of test-takers like me, who only took Math II and one science test (in my case, physics) just to satisfy the admission requirements to certain universities.
You can’t tell without more info… I have a kid who got 800 on Math II and Lit, which may be rarer. But there isn’t enough info to tell.
Math 2 an 800 is at the 85th percentile, Chemistry its at the 91st percentile and Physics its the 90th percentile. Now scoring an 800 on Lit is impressive, 99th percentile! Not that many students would take these 3 tests (aside from those applying to Georgetown) and no public domain information exists on how individual students do on different Subject tests. These are good scores, check the box and move onto other elements of your application
If you are asking, will MIT swoon, then the answer is no. It does not seem to be rare for tudents who come from test-centric regions to have 800s on those SATs.
In 2015, the numbers of 800 scores were roughly 27,500 on Math 2, 7,100 on Physics, and 6,600 on Chem. So I’d venture a guess of 2-3 thousand who scored 800 on all 3, which means such an accomplishment isn’t so rare at top schools like HYPSM (probably on par with the rarity of a 2350+ SAT score).
I probably know 20-30 kids a year who get 800 on all three, and 50-80 more who exceed 780 on all three. Pretty common in Asia, in other words.
Yeah, the ability to take these tests multiple times makes these high scores a lot less rare than you’d think. And there is a ceiling effect for top students. At schools like MIT and CalTech, I’d guess many scores are 800s.
I don’t want to diminish high abilities of students in Asian countries and their amazing dedication to work. Nevertheless, the fact is that the ETS and CB, who collectively fill their coffers with millions of dollars every year (yawn), brazenly continue recycling old SATs.
Another fact. It’s not that hard, from what I heard from Chinese students, to buy in China multi-volume compendiums of all the SATs ever administered. The result? A record percentage of students with stellar scores in China.
What’s surprising is that nobody is raising an issue of the ETS’s and CB’s using same old SAT Subject Tests over and over in the US. I am not familiar with Subject Tests other than Literature and Math Levels 1 and 2, but the following examples, I believe, can be extrapolated across the board to all Subject Tests.
.
Literature: January 2016 = October 2014 = December 2013 = June 2011;
January 2013 = December 2007(and likely some years in between).
Some passages and poems seem to be included in different tests repeatedly.
Math Level 2: January 2016 = May 2014 = October 2011.
Some questions in both Math Levels 1 and 2 migrate from one test into another as parts of amalgamations.
Math Level 1: October 2009 → October 2011 → January 2016.
Math Level 2: June 2006 → January 2009 → January 2016.
Of course, it’s impossible to prove those repeats by other than analyzing online discussions and personal notes, which are obviously done in violation of the College Board 's policies; that evidence thus is inadmissible.
No wonder that the College Board, since the inception of the Subject Tests in 1937, has released a whooping whole of one real SAT Subject Test per subject (generously adding in 2006 the second one to each of Math Levels 1 and 2, US History, and World History, and publishing two separate books - Math and History).
There is no such thing as QASs and SASs for Subject Tests - why do the ETS and College Board get away with that? (another yawn)
Anyway, back to the original topic. If only a very limited number of Subject Tests are being in circulation, there is no doubt that their copies made it into the hands of test prep companies as well as individuals across the globe, and most definitely in China and South Korea.
No wonder 800 on Subject SATs is so common in Asia.
I agree with all of those problems and have been complaining about them for a decade, but I still don’t think it’s fair to jump to “No wonder 800 on Subject SATs is so common in Asia,” as the students I know and teach explicitly do not want to cheat and choose not to pursue that direction. I’m biased, of course, as I like them and admire their dedication, but I’ll stand up for them even as I acknowledge the problems in both the system and its execution in practice.
For kids who are taking AP Calc BC, AP Physics, and AP Chem and get A’s in the class and 5’s on the AP exams – taking the SAT version of the test and getting an 800 is not that difficult. Most of those kids are already wired for math anyway. No cheating involved.
Sorry, let me be clear…I was talking about within the US in my above post.
@marwin100 I am not trying to paint the whole oriental students’ population with one black brush stroke. I have worked with students from China with high work ethics standards; I have also encountered Chinese students who would not consider cheating beneath them. Same is true about American students.
What I am talking about is how wide spread gaming the SAT and other tests is in China and South Korea and how that leads to an overabundance of high scorers.
Not rare for many Asians.
@CalBearsMom (post #10)
I don’t know the statistics which would show the degree of correlation between the AP grades and the SAT Subject Tests scores (I would assume it’s high), but in my observations 5s on APs don’t automatically translate into SAT’s 800s. I’ve seen kids in advanced calculus classes score in low 700s on the SAT Math Subject Tests; same with Physics, Chemistry, Bio, and History.
I don’t want to derail this thread into yet another dead panda beating, but, for the fairness’ sake, it merits to mention that cheating problem does not belong exclusively to the China’s or South Korea’s landscapes:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132376&page=1
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/cheating-rife-in-uk-education-system-dispatches-investigation-shows
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130527/france-to-crack-down-on-school-exam-cheats
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10084299/Russia-hit-by-exam-cheating-epidemic.html
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy-Politics/Corruption-high-tech-cheating-mar-India-s-med-school-exams.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-JRTB-21439
And:
https://educationrealist.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/10/08/asian-immigrants-and-what-no-one-mentions-aloud/
US and European countries added
While AP tests are usually harder than their corresponding subject test, the subjects tested don’t completely overlap. The biology subject tests for example tested me on subjects I never even heard of in my AP course, but for the most part they are similar in content. You could be great at calculus but that doesn’t mean you’re gonna ace Math II since there is no calculus on the test. I just wish colleges could use AP scores for admission because those tests are far more in depth and aren’t just multiple choice.