@londondad @TomSrOfBoston I agree with the impression you have and your impression that Notre Dame is far more “Catholic” than Georgetown. Both universities admit as much. ND is also far more insular, making a point of talking about the Notre Dame “family” and strongly encouraging legacies. I found it to be a lot like Pepperdine.
@exlibris97 Good point. I agree that the insularity of ND is what stood out particularly as all of the schools where DD was accepted to touted the advantages of the nearest urban area to the school, which was not mentioned at ND.
Percent of students who self-ID as Catholic.
ND – 80+%
BC – 70%
GT – <50%
Any other Catholics out there who really dislike the direction this thread is taking?
Many students want to go to college in Washington, DC. Washington, DC is the only major metro area where the top college is Catholic. Hence the conflict between a desire for prestige and fear of being exposed to a perceived religious environment.
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There’s plenty of different flavors of Catholic colleges.
Catholic U is the school which is probably closest to something like BYU. It is run by the U.S. bishops and has a direct link to the Vatican. It is the “official” or “state-run” college of the Catholic church in the U.S.
ND, BC and GT are all quite different animals from Catholic U.
ND isn’t “insular” to me at all. My kids found it extremely welcoming when they visited. But it does foster a very intense and loyal community – one that is only equaled imo by USNA, USMA and maybe Princeton. There’s several ingredients in that recipe in addition to its Catholic culture (football, legacies, an almost completely campus-based student experience, isolated and Midwest location). Some people love that recipe; some don’t.
Gtown is much more cosmopolitan in location and spirit. Being run by the Jesuits contributes to that too.
@bjkmom Not sure what your concern is. I’m Catholic and have no problem with people asking how “religious” the university is. The reality is that Catholic universities differ significantly and some are definitely more religious than others. I think this was best summed up by Georgetown’s President who referred to the university’s “Jesuit heritage”. This is very different from how Catholic University of America, Pepperdine, Liberty University etc., describe themselves.
@TomSrOfBoston To your point, I wouldn’t describe Georgetown as having a religious environment. It’s a very welcoming environment and the university actually goes to consider pains to welcome and embrace those of different faiths or no faith at all.
I agree with @northwesty that there are different flavors in the Catholic Schools, something for everyone. My D was admitted to ND, GU and BC. We did 2 visits to each college plus the accepted students weekends at each college. GU is by far the least Catholic. BC is somewhere in the middle – more Catholic, even though both are Jesuit. ND is the most Catholic. The fact that GU had priests, ministers, rabbis, imans, etc. was very attractive to my D. It is “religious” in that it fosters the celebration of religion in general if that’s your thing, but it is not overly Catholic. In the end, my D chose ND for reasons that were important to her, that had nothing to do with religion. But her choice of ND over GU in no way denigrates the culture at GU which she also liked. Both are good schools, with different strengths, it just depends on what is for you. As is often the case, I find it discouraging when some feel the need to use offensive language to disparage other schools, especially when their exposure those schools is - by their own account - so limited.
@waitingmomla Your post summed up my thoughts exactly. My Daughter chose GU over BC (and decided not to apply to ND) for reasons having nothing to do with religion.
@londondad I doubt my post summed up your thoughts exactly since it was your offensive language to which I was referring. Calling Notre Dame “oppressively Catholic” , “insular” (a “nicer” way to say ignorant) and a “strange place” is just insulting, whether you are Catholic or not. There is no need for those comments based on the OPs question about Gtown. There are many kids applying to the top Catholic schools reading all these college pages to get information as they craft their applications. I’d be curious to know if you would refer to an HBCU as “oppressively African-American” or if you’d refer to an all-women’s college as “oppressively feminine”. My guess would be no. However it appears that schools that proudly embrace their Catholicism are apparently fair game. I’d be equally curious to know if you have ever visited BYU or Liberty U. I’ll admit upfront I’m very doubtful you have. If so, since by your own admission you didn’t even finish the tour of ND, I’m not sure what experience you would use to draw your comparison.
“I’m not sure what experience you would use to draw your comparison.”
These were based entirely on my own opinions based on having attended Catholic schools (including Catholic university) for 17 years and visiting six Catholic universities on my kids’ college search. Based on my visits, ND did stand out compared the rest. I think it would be very hard to be non-Catholic at ND, compared to the way that all faiths are welcomed at Georgetown. We pretty much did finish the ND tour, We just wandered off towards the end after the visit to the faux Lourdes grotto. Also, “insular” was not meant to be a pejorative by me, although the term can be used in that manner.
I just took some courses at Georgetown through the consortium and I can say that I had a blast at Georgetown and was genuinely surprised by what the reality of being a student at Georgetown was like. Georgetown is well known as a campus built on Jesuit culture and while that sort of theme is apparent on campus, particularly in the architecture and novelty of Georgetown, my experience with other students was actually quite varied and I found that Georgetown was more ecumenical than I thought. People at Georgetown are not necessarily devout Christians as some may think; there’s actually a variety of intellectuals on campus and when I was taking courses Georgetown actually had a warm welcome for exchange students from the SFS-Qatar campus. Qatar, of course, is a primarily Muslim culture so many of the students visiting from the SFS-Qatar were Muslim. I personally grew up in a Muslim family and have felt alienated for quite a while- I’ve never really felt comfortable being a Muslim in America. Though, it was really really cool to take classes with students from the SFS-Qatar campus as well as students from the D.C campus. Some of Georgetowns students are not actually Christian and while there are strong Christianic undertones on campus it never feels like it’s being imposed on you. Really, Georgetown is just a great university.
@londondad None of that explains your comparison of Notre Dame to BYU and Liberty U, which is what my last statement referenced. Since you still haven’t said that you visited them, I will take that as confirmation you did not. (You say you visited 6 Catholic schools – BYU is a Mormon university & Liberty is Evangelical Christian). Therefore your statement that ND is like those schools (or more like them than GT,BC are) is based on assumption, not personal experience – when in fact there is no way you could know that ND is anything at all like those schools… My point in all of this is that as college app season gets into full swing, there are applicants reading these threads trying to get information on multiple colleges they are considering (as my D did). As parents, lets try to help keep information on this site as factually correct as possible, so that students applying this year get the benefit of the accurate facts & informed opinions we wanted for our own Ds. It is one thing for a parent to offer a personal opinion that a particular school wasn’t a fit for their child. It is another thing to make statements formed on assumption, rather than personal experience or fact. Most importantly for the prospective students reading these threads, I fail to see the point in criticizing a school that the OP didn’t even ask about (I think “oppressively Catholic” plenty qualifies as a pejorative. As I said, I’m sure you wouldn’t use that language when discussing another minority group, whether you are a member or not).
@waitingmomla I personally value all opinions. If someone finds a particular school “insular”, that’s their opinion. I read @londondad’s post and didn’t find it at all pejorative. One nice aspect of CC is the difference of opinion it elicits, which is valuable for all involved. I worry more when people try to shut down discussions because they may disagree with what is being said (if you want to see really heated opinions, check any of the LAC threads. People have VERY strong opinions whether they are great or not)!
Gtown is looking for diverse students including religion. It probably is the college that has the most student volunteers helping out in the community. I wouldn’t keep its Jesuit roots from keeping me from a world class education at one of the most scenic campuses around.
@exlibris97 The use of the term insular I guess is open to interpretation. But I think “oppressively Catholic” is absolutely a pejorative. Again, I wonder if he used that type of description in reference to another minority group if your reaction would be different. But we can agree to disagree. My main problem with his post was his comparison of ND, GU and BC to BYU and Liberty, when clearly he has never been to the latter 2 schools and has no basis for comparison, let alone his statement that ND is most like them. Opinions are one thing. Uninformed opinions offered up as fact are another. I think all applicants looking at this site this year are entitled to the most accurate information possible when making their decisions. And most important – I agree with you that a variety of viewpoints is valuable. I don’t think I said anything that tried to shut down any discussion, I merely stated my disagreement with his post
Pepperdine’s affiliation is Churches of Christ. ND is Churches of the Holy Cross. BC and GU, as Jesuit schools, have an interest in faith, as well as strong drive to educate. Take a look at how different “Catholic” schools (or others with a religious grounding) frame their Mission Statements.
Georgetown: “University Mission Statement. … Established in 1789 in the spirit of the new republic, the university was founded on the principle that serious and sustained discourse among people of different faiths, cultures, and beliefs promotes intellectual, ethical and spiritual understanding.”
One difference between BC and GU is the former was founded to educate Catholics, in an area that’s still quite Catholic, both in numbers and as a frame of reference. (I think anyone in the Boston areas sees this.) While GU is in one of the most international cities in the US.
Both are comfortable for many kids. So what if there are crucifixes?