How rigorous is Cornell really?

<p>I think it’s not that simple since biology is a really broad subject. For example…molecular biology is considered a “hard” science, whereas evolutionary biology is considered a “softer” science. Although, I think there’s quite a bit of controversy over this whole hard vs. soft science issue. I honestly don’t see a point in labeling sciences in such a manner when, at the end of the day, each field makes its own valuable contributions with regard to knowledge. It’s not a competition! It’s a collaboration. :)</p>

<p>^ Touch</p>

<p>I wish you all would stop labeling any course of study that isn’t regurgitating facts or numbers as “fluff”. As someone who did both hard and social science, I can tell you that there’s great value and intensity in reading, analyzing, creating, and thinking for oneself. It’s just more subjective, so it’s easier for you all to say it’s “fluff”.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I have done more than my share of humanities and engineering, and I would definetly say humanities is fluff, since it is really quite easy to BS my way through humanities/social science classes. But try as I might, I just couldn’t BS an LZW compression program or a map-reduce server. I work my butt off, a couple of all nighters a semester to get a B+ in a computer science class, but I spend about 40 hours total in a semester on a humanities course and get an A. Is it possible to do some great stuff in every class? Of course. But most people just want to get by, and getting by in some classes take a lot more work than others.</p>

<p>^ That is true. My chem and bio classes, I’m putting in some good work. French as well, so it’s not true of all non-science/math classes, but my english FWS is kind of a joke. We get tons of reading assigned and stuff, but you can read the first and last page of the chapter, skim the middle, read the spark notes and in 5-10 minutes have an hours worth of reading done. And it’s more than sufficient for what we do in class. And essays you can research and cite sources and stuff.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Except for the fact that you didn’t read the chapter.</p>

<p>Very true. But it gets the grade and that’s what society’s all about these days. It’s no longer how well you learned something, it’s how well you can take the test and how close to 4.0 that GPA is. </p>

<p>I’d much rather it was learn something and learn it well and not worry about the score you got, but that’s unrealistic. I’m sure you know where I’m coming from, but when you’ve got a huge workload piled on, and you can get away with reading sparknotes and get the same grade and have more time to do the rest of your work, then that’s what you do.</p>

<p>Much of the huge amount of reading I did as a student I still remember. Some of it I have even read again and recommended to others.</p>

<p>The stuff I didn’t read? Not so much.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Funny how that works.</p>

<p>I hate to break it to you, ZFanatic, but much of life is not about getting the grade. It is about coming off as polished and prepared and professional. And able to make small talk about the fiction you read in college because that’s what polite society does when they mingle. I still bring up books like Candide, Babbitt, Bleak House, and Fear of Flying in conversation. And when I interview Cornell students I make it a point to see if they bring up books they have read in conversation. Because, frankly, I don’t want to hire the kids who are just interested in getting the grade.</p>

<p>You are privileged to be at a school like Cornell, insulated from all of the pressures of this awful recession and stress of day to day living. The least you could do is read what is assigned.</p>

<p>truth. Unfortunately I have realized this more as an alum rather than when I was a student. Regrets.</p>

<p>hardest things in general at cornell (that I heard about so far):
architecture (rumor has it the students never leave the studios)
engineering (especially after first semester)
Biology (and I think, like in some other schools, sciences just tend to be more difficult than hummanities, generally)</p>

<p>But again, it really depends. If you really want to do well in Cornell, of course you are going to work hard and that alone can be difficult (unless you are just really so smart that any amount of work is nothing to you).</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You’re missing my point. You’re equating difficulty with hours committed to something. I’m simply pointing out that an argument could be made that all the hours you are spending creating a compression program are spent creating something that has already been done. They’re just teaching you how to do what someone else has already done. In that sense, you’re just reguritating (be it memorizing the structure of a muscle or the workings of a technology or whatever else may be considered “difficult” in a conventional sense). </p>

<p>Coming up with new insights, new ideas, and new perspectives on society through literature or philosophy or social science is not intrinsically fluff. Perhaps it seems that way within the confines of school, but such people tend to be the ones who ultimately create the mechanisms to change society.</p>

<p>people like norcalguy will say it’s on the lower end of the difficulty scale and others will say its on the upper end. that was their experience based on their abilities/work ethic/knowledge/intelligence, etc. i would just take this as subjective experience rather than an objective claim of what cornell’s rigor will be like for you.</p>

<p>there are people here cruising to 4.0+ gpa’s in engineering or math rather effortlessly and others struggling for a 2.5 in sociology or animal science. i don’t know you personally, but odds are, you’ll fall somewhere in between (then again, you could be a super genius for all i know). </p>

<p>bottom line is: you will work… plenty. you’ll more than likely find yourself working extremely hard in a class for a B. you’ll find yourself at other times putting in little effort and end up with an A. it really just varies from person to person. if you think you’ll be here and have your nose in a book all day and all night long, you’re wrong. if you think you will be able to skate by and ace classes, you’re wrong. you’ll have to work for your grades but you can very easily maintain an active and healthy social life.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m talking about fluff classes, man. How many classes exactly produce new insights, new ideas and new perspectives?</p>

<p>Of course, all the regurgitating is the easiest part of engineering/science. Don’t get me started how long my team spent on creating a new and “innovative” video game. Which humanities/social course produces new knowledge and products and is as difficult as, say, a project based software engineering / program design course? The point is, it’s easy to get past most humanities/social science classes without doing much work at all, thus it’s fluff. Capiche?</p>

<p>@ awkaplan and others</p>

<p>“It depends on your major, do you want to study architecture or PAM?”</p>

<p>does the policy analysis and management major have a a very rigorous coursework compared other majors?</p>

<p>lol, no. It is not known has having a difficult reputation. The traditionally difficult spend hours in the library and do not go out on friday or saturday nights majors would be architecture (imho, this is true for the most part, not a rumor, archs are a big ■■■), engineering disciplines, physics and maybe chemistry. ILRies have a lot of reading to do usually. Lets just say that PAM is right up there with communications and AEM with its ability to graduate athletes.</p>

<p>architecture + the hardcore science related majors are teh hard ones.</p>

<p>the work load for architecture is WAY over-rated. Yes, they’re in there for hours and hours, but architects are some of the most unfocused people I’ve ever seen (no offense). In the studio they socialize, order out dinner, play music, etc. To think they do nothing but work is not correct … and some of those all-nighters can usually be attributed to procrastination. I’m not saying the models or drawing don’t take a long time, they do, but it’s much easier to work on a model for 6 hours than it is to study the various types of interest rate derivatives being used in the financial world today. The work is tedious, but not hard by any shape of the imagination.</p>

<p>i’m going to have to strongly disagree with that as a 4th year architecture student. What you see in studio with the procrastination is largely with the 1st years who have yet to grasp a strong productive work ethic to studio (which btw, is very different from studying for an exam or writing a paper and takes a long time to grasp). Anyone who has gone through 1st year knows very well that they are sick of pulling all nighters and would work hard to finish everything on time. </p>

<p>There is also the collaborative aspect of studio which is fundamental to architectural education. It is a bad sign if no one talks to each other and shares each other about their work or ideas, etc. </p>

<p>Modeling certainly takes a long time but that is rarely what takes up most of the time. In fact, for the past two years, i have not built a single physical model. It has always been design, computation, and class work.</p>

<p>These students are admitted into the most selective department in the university for their drive, talent, and intellectual capacity. Procrastination would certainly not be the reason why architecture students are known for working so long.</p>

<p>Gomestar, you clearly have little clue as to the sustained work and extensive time involved in being a committed architectural student under deadline after deadline. You also don’t realize the thought and monumental effort that goes into the production of detailed physical model making to scale. And that is just the tip of the iceberg: architectural students are required to study structural engineering, strength of materials, mechanical and life safety systems, water and effluent distribution systems, macro-electrical engineering, geotechnical engineering, landscape design, ecology, interior design, lighting design, sketching, the psychology of space relationships and pedestrian flow in space, specification writing, real estate law, architectural history, the procedures of efficient professional practice, et cetera.</p>

<p>There is an old joke that "engineers learn more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing; and architects learn less and less about more and more, until the know nothing about everything. This all adds up to all but an impossible task for both engineers, as well as for architects. The respect they receive is well earned.</p>