<p>Seriously, I can’t believe that someone is trying to convince this kid that accounting isn’t a stable career path. I don’t know a single accounting student that didn’t have a big 4 offer lined up at graduation - compare that to finance, engineering, liberal arts, etc …</p>
<p>Even medical student graduates don’t all match. There are less residencies than medical school students of course.</p>
<p>^“I don’t know a single accounting student that didn’t have a big 4 offer lined up at graduation”</p>
<p>This is a sarcasm right? </p>
<p>goose: “The job security of people working in the B4 is fantastic…because they can go find new work instantly.”</p>
<p>I see that you do not understand what the job security is. It is not your ability to find a new job, but how secure is your job. As you know, big 4 have one of the highest turnover rates. It is true that most of the people leave themselves, but many are laid off. For instance, have you heard that when Bank of America lost 8 billion, they laid off thousands of people? Workers probably thought that their job was secure, but it wasn’t. </p>
<p>“Almost everyone complains about salaries because it feels like they are being underpaid. Get over it.” </p>
<p>Most of the times, it is not because they feel that they are being underpaid, but because they really are. Wouldn’t you complain if you knew that many union workers who have associates degrees or no degrees at all, not mentioning waiters, bartenders, are being paid more than accountants with masters degrees? Many people pursue accounting because they hope that in the future they will make a good living, but when they start, they are ridiculously underpaid. I meet accountants in NY who are paid 700-1000$ a week before taxes, and I know plenty of waiters who make the same amount in one or two days. So, salary is a big issue. </p>
<p>gobluecpa,</p>
<p>I’m just trying to prove to them that the medical field has a better job security than business. I am in a business field myself, and I’m not biased towards medicine.</p>
<p>
Why doesn’t that make sense?</p>
<p>I second goose’s moron comment</p>
<p>I wouldn’t pay any attention to anyone that says unemployment and underemployment are not major, and continously growing, problems both in America and the rest of the world.</p>
<p>But as for the actual subject, the true answer:
Until you are a some type of principal partner in a firm, a director-level doctor in a medical organization, a high-level administrator or tenured professor in a university, a high-ranking government official, or an executive in large business or powerful non-profit organization…until then…there is no such thing as job security.</p>
<p>Tosh, how would I be a “moron” if you’re called a moron? I am the one that is saying that comparing MDs to accountants is dumb, but if forced to answer I would say MDs have a more stable career largely because the health care sector is, bar none, the most in demand today. You, among others, are trying to say that there is a significant difference which is certainly misleading</p>
<p>“big 4 have one of the highest turnover rates. It is true that most of the people leave themselves, but many are laid off. It is true that most of the people leave themselves, but many are laid off. For instance, have you heard that when Bank of America lost 8 billion, they laid off thousands of people?”</p>
<p>This statement is absolutely riddled with stupidity. Big 4 is far from an anomaly when it comes to having high turnover rates. In fact, you stated that Bank of America has a high turnover/lay off rate. Without any argument, your statement is self-defeating. I have heard first hand that PwC did not layoff any employees in the core organization. Furthermore, for the rest of the Big 4, to say that the turnover is more influenced by layoffs rather than employees moving to the private sector clearly shows that you have little to no knowledge of the Big 4 or public accounting in general. I have heard numerous people in the Big 4 and also former Big 4 employees say that many people do use Big 4 as a spring board for future careers in other firms and are not ashamed of this fact. Its the nature of the business profession. </p>
<p>“almost all accountants pursue masters and a CPA, and as the supply increases, the value of a masters and a CPA decreases.”</p>
<p>[Number</a> of CPA in the US](<a href=“http://ipassthecpaexam.com/number-of-cpa/]Number”>Number of CPA in USA: Interesting Statistics and Trend)
[Explaining</a> the Decline in CPA Candidates](<a href=“Find Your Page | The New York State Society of CPAs”>Find Your Page | The New York State Society of CPAs)</p>
<p>Once again, Tosh, you have proven yourself to know nothing about what you purport to have knowledge of. From a common sense standpoint, why do you think the CPA now requires 150 hours? Answer: to further the barrier of entry for CPAs. Additionally, with a 40%-45% passing rate, the CPA has proven itself as a great mechanism to certify only the best in the profession.</p>
<p>The bottom line #1 is that accounting is one of the most secure professions in our economy. Studies back this statement up and simple knowledge of the profession confirms this stance.</p>
<p>Bottom line #2 is that this board needs a CPA test-like mechanism to make sure only people who have half a clue of business can actually add input.</p>
<p>Tosh is there a reason why you’re so rude?</p>
<p>The Big 4 offers *<strong><em>ty hours and *</em></strong>ty pay to accelerate an accountant’s career. All of my accounting friends (PWC and KPMG mostly) got amazing offers a few months into their first projects (~120k @ a financial institution) but turned them down because they wanted to finish a 3-5 yr stint at big 4 before leaping into f500 corp accounting.</p>
<p>The number of people who make a career out of accounting in the big 4 is few and far between. Ideally you put in your years and make manager, get your CPA, and then get out of there for some cush job in industry</p>
<p>Here is some of my personal experience. My mom is a doctor, and says that she knew she wanted to be a doctor and nothing else since she was 12. Medicine is not a field you want to go into if you are lukewarm about it. It takes quite a lot of commitment, and is not something you want go into if you do not truly.</p>
<p>Sorry but -Lurker- is completely wrong. $120,ooo for Accountants on their FIRST projects my ass.</p>
<p>No financial institution would think of doing such a thing.</p>
<p>trizz75, “Tosh, how would I be a “moron” if you’re called a moron?” </p>
<p>I did not call anyone a moron here. Goose said that since I started comparing medical field and business then I suppose to be a moron. I just pointed out that you were the first. His post was ridiculous in the first place.</p>
<p>“In fact, you stated that Bank of America has a high turnover/lay off rate.”</p>
<p>WHERE DID I SAY THAT? This example was given to illustrate the job security in business. What it means is that when a business/company loses money or if it is not profitable–it will lay off workers. </p>
<p>“I have heard first hand that PwC did not layoff any employees in the core organization.”</p>
<p>This is not true because every single organization has lay offs, simply because not all workers have a good performance, and nobody is going to keep slackers.</p>
<p>“Furthermore, for the rest of the Big 4, to say that the turnover is more influenced by layoffs rather than employees moving to the private sector clearly shows that you have little to no knowledge of the Big 4 or public accounting in general.”</p>
<p>Again, stop putting words into my mouth. I said that most of the people leave THEMSELVES
Were you drunk when you read my post or something?</p>
<p>“almost all accountants pursue masters and a CPA, and as the supply increases, the value of a masters and a CPA decreases.”</p>
<p>THIS IS CURRENTLY TRUE. Go and ask any business school at any college. Most of their students pursues either accounting or finance. Those who pursue accounting, almost all of them, have a CPA in mind. Even if you look at this website, you will see that accounting is the most popular among all business majors. Btw, this is true in almost all of the schools in New York. Your source is a blog of some accountant that has info (don’t know from where) that was in 2006. Are you serious? I do not need a statistic to notice that most of the business students go into accounting, nowadays. </p>
<p>“From a common sense standpoint, why do you think the CPA now requires 150 hours? Answer: to further the barrier of entry for CPAs.”</p>
<p>Of course I know that, but DO YOU know why they try to put that barrier? Reply and maybe then I will enlighten you. </p>
<p>“The bottom line #1 is that accounting is one of the most secure professions in our economy. Studies back this statement up and simple knowledge of the profession confirms this stance.”</p>
<p>First of all, those studies show that accounting is one of the most sought after degrees by employers, which means that there is big demand for it. However, as I said before, the job security and your ability to find a job are different things. I agree that by pursuing accounting, it will be easier for you or anyone else to find a job, but it does not mean that it is secure. By secure I mean: your ability to maintain your job, without being fired because of the factors, such as your age or profitability of a business. When you or I will become an old fart, none of the big 4 or any other companies would want to keep us. Do you understand that or do you need further explanations???</p>
<p>Lurker, “Tosh is there a reason why you’re so rude?”</p>
<p>I am not rude. I was wondering whether your post was serious or not. And how can you call me rude, when there are people who are calling names here?</p>
<p>In addition, I notice that many accounting students are like zombies, brainwashed by Yahoo articles or something else. Just for fun, I asked a few students why they want to become a CPA, and it seemed that they had no clue. In fact, most of them did not know about other professional certifications like: CMA, CIA, EA, CFE, etc. Just look at this youtube video and you may get what I mean. Just pretend that an iphone is a CPA lol. </p>
<p>[iPhone4</a> vs HTC Evo - YouTube](<a href=“iPhone4 vs HTC Evo - YouTube”>iPhone4 vs HTC Evo - YouTube)</p>
<p>or </p>
<p>[I</a> Want To Be An Investment Banker - xtranormal - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>These videos represent the current mindsets of many students, unfortunately.</p>
<p>Tosh, its really not worth my time to continue pointing out where your points lack validity, but I’ll attempt to nevertheless for the sake of the general populus that looks at this board.</p>
<p>First, this discussion was based on accounting and not business/finance. Your mentioning of Bank of America misconstrues the original point of this thread. Bank of America has no relevance to this discussion nor does it correlate in any way with the turnover/layoff patterns of the Big 4 and the accounting industry. To say otherwise is just plain idiotic. </p>
<p>Its hard to “put words in your mouth” when I directly respond to your quotes. You can argue about my responses, but you certainly cannot claim that I am putting words in your mouth.</p>
<p>As far as my sources, these were one of many that I found on the topic. Need I list more?</p>
<p>[American</a> Accounting Association - The Ongoing Debate about the Impact of the 150?Hour Education Requirement on the Supply of Certified Public Accountants](<a href=“http://aaapubs.org/doi/abs/10.2308/iace.2009.24.4.465?journalCode=iace]American”>http://aaapubs.org/doi/abs/10.2308/iace.2009.24.4.465?journalCode=iace)</p>
<p>As far as teaching me on the significance of the 150 rule, I would personally much rather consult a source from the American Accounting Association than ask someone like you who purports to have tremendous knowledge on the subject. And, as an FYI, the AAA’s explanation mirrors mine, so I was right. But thanks anyways.</p>
<p>I think it can be agreed upon that articles written within the last ten years on the issue offer some truth. Additionally, my second source was a blog but was nevertheless sourced by actual agencies. Not a fan of Wikipedia, are you? And, also, your lack of any sources and your plethora of generalizations is mind boggling. So, for you to say anything about citing is rather hypocritical.</p>
<p>As far as the PwC comment, obviously they weed out poor preforming employees. What sector in our economy doesn’t? We are capitalist after all? I think we can all agree that layoffs in conversation is defined as people who are discharged from their position due to extraneous circumstances outside their control. In common language, the term “fired” is used for those who are discharged due to person-related causes. So, I assumed the audience of this board realized the difference.</p>
<p>With regards to keeping a job, age is not a huge factor because Big 4 often hires outsiders into corresponding positions in the firm. For example, a 35 year old new hire for Deloitte who used to be the controller for a small, local firm will likely be placed as a manager, in which group most employees are in their thirties. Now, if you’re 40 and are applying for a job as an entry level associate at Big 4, you will likely not find a job and understandably so. Nevertheless, opportunities for those outside the Big 4 certainly exist. For the 60 year old rule, do you not realize the insane pensions that Big 4 partners get after retirement. Trust me, the last thing they are thinking of is financial security after they’re 60. And, as private firms, I would venture to guess that Big 4 has much less incentive to layoff works based on profit goals than public firms. At the very least, to say Big 4 has less job security overall because of a abnormal concern for profit is misleading. </p>
<p>Lastly, as for your last post…</p>
<p>A) You act like one of those finance/non-accounting business majors who has something against accounting majors.</p>
<p>B) No offense, but your cute little “poll” does not offer anything to the discussion. You complain about my sources when you claim that your random polls have any value.</p>
<p>C) The xtranormal video, while funny, once again does not offer anything to the discussion. Why do you continue to insist to change the discussion towards finance/business and away from accounting? Attempting to prove points regarding accounting based on finance/business anecdotes is invalid.</p>
<p>Trizz LOL</p>
<p>If his dad is a medical doctor of course he is probably paying the kid’s tuition. An MD salary would pretty much eliminate need based financial aid. LOL Unless the kid is getting a full scholarship ride the dad is paying.</p>
<p>MD’s have more job security. Partners at large firms don’t even have much job security. They get sued all the time and clients come and go in some practices. I have family that work in healthcare management and it is almost unheard of to fire or lay off an MD. Now not all MD’s make as much money as CPA’s It really depends on the CPA and the MD</p>
<p>I make much more than your average pediatrician adjusted for average student loan repayment and income taxes. This is due to the fact I live in a city with a VERY high cost of living and I am not at the entry level. </p>
<p>I make nothing near what a good plastic surgeon makes and I probably never will even if I make partner. That being said there is no guarantee that you would end up with a residency in a lucrative practice. </p>
<p>Honestly I would tell you to follow what you like but keep in mind what people will pay you for and what has some job security. Don’t become a musician or something like that. Try out medicine and try out accounting. You could be pre-med with an accounting major just take the science classes alongside the degree. They would help you get your 150.</p>
<p>I think everyone should just calm down in here…</p>
<p>My H is a doctor. The field is in transition and with more and more government regulations, there is a mountain of paperwork to do than just seeing patients. My H loves medicine, but not the bureaucracy and he is glad he is at the tail end of his career and not just starting out. Though it is a secure profession, job satisfaction among physicians is declining.</p>
<p>Neither of our two kids are in medicine.</p>
<p>Very few of our physician friends are encouraging their children to pursue medicine unless they don’t care about overworked and underpaid in the future.</p>
<p>Your dad is incorrect it’s as simple as that. I would say the three most solid fields of study as far as stable employment, job prospects, and career trajectory are (no particular order):</p>
<p>-Accounting
-Most medical related fields
-Most computer related fields</p>
<p>These are the areas with the most demand and growth. In fact, with Obamacare I would say the salary of doctors may be a little less secure than most may think (but I don’t want to get into politics). </p>
<p>Every company, hospital, school, government entity, organization, non-profit, business of any setup (public/private, corporation/partnership, etc) needs accountants to track, project, record, and communicate all financial and operational information. It’s really as simple as that. </p>
<p>Additionally, accounting as a foundational study can springboard you into almost any area of business. I-banking, finance, supply chain, general management are all areas accounting can take someone, in addition to accounting. </p>
<p>Accounting is one of the most promising career paths as you can be on the road to making lots of money with only a bachelor’s degree and studying really hard for the CPA. You can skip the years and six figures of debt of medical school.</p>
<p>“Accounting is one of the most promising career paths as you can be on the road to making lots of money with only a bachelor’s degree and studying really hard for the CPA”</p>
<p>Lest anyone get the wrong idea. Most states require you to get 150/225 credits (which essentially amounts to ~5years) to get the CPA credential.</p>
<p>^ Probably not common, but 150/225 units within 4 years is doable. Not sure other schools, DD told me that about 40% of her school’s acct majors have 225+ units when graduating w/ bachelor’s degree. She will be a junior after the summer and already have over 120 units (only 4 units from AP when start college). So she is on track to meet the CPA education requirement with only a bachelor’s degree within 4 years.</p>
<p>“Not sure other schools, DD told me that about 40% of her school’s acct majors have 225+ units when graduating w/ bachelor’s degree.”</p>
<p>Definitely not common. 40% is high! I guess some schools are different & require substantially more credits for a bachelors.</p>