How significant is the difference between a top Engineering school and a lower one?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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The truth is that engineers have it pretty rough nowadays...huge layoffs, outsourcing, fresh-meat from colleges, no pensions etc. are killing the average engineer. Obviously the "jobs" that you posted on "devbistro", which is a shady employment website at best, are TEMP jobs to support some ridiculous claim that engineers can look forward to making upwards of 200k if they work hard enuf. The sad reality is that most engineers won't crack 100k barrier...If they do, they ain't going to crack 110k easily....every 10k gets tougher and tougher, and the jobs get less and less secure. At 200k, it's a pump and dump gig!! They'll bring you on board for 3-6 months, use you up and then spit you back out. That's the most probable scenario.

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<p>Then Google some sites yourself. Just put in things terms like "$150k", along with various computer science terms like J2EE, EJB, Oracle, and the like, and you will find plenty of other sites other than devbistro. </p>

<p>Look, I never said that everybody could get these jobs. I am saying that these jobs are out there. And in fact, I am fairly certain that it is easier to get these jobs than it is to become a doctor. </p>

<p>And even if those 200k jobs are a pump-and-dump gig, so what? You made very good money during all that time. If it's a 6 month job, hey, you made 100k in 6 months. With that money, you can afford to take time off to get that 1-year add-on nursing degree if nursing is such a great option. </p>

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[quote]
There are much easier ways to make 100k. Doctors, nurses, chiropractors, lawyers, etc, and much STABLER ways!!!! Also, most professions enjoy life more than engineers....being able to see the sun once in a while, not having constant pressures (to present powerpoints, defend every decision you make, to network with other team leads/managers who may/maynot care for you......coding is not considered to be "pressure" by engineers, but the other stuff is, and there's plenty of it), not having to worry about paychecks in the next quarter (layoffs happen at the end of each quarter) etc...!! Is that a good way to earn a 100k, or would you rather make 90k and enjoy your life in other professions!!!!!

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<p>Oh yeah, doctors are NEVER under any pressure, right? Neither are lawyers. </p>

<p>Let's also talk about how "easy" it is to be a doctor. Only 17,000 people get admitted to US medical schools every year. Is that easy? Compare that to the 70,000 bachelor's degrees in engineering that get minted every year. Even if all of them decided to apply to medical school and all the available spots went to them, that's still 75% of them who can't get a spot. What are these people supposed to do.</p>

<p>And what about lawyers? Perhaps you'd like to discuss with ariesathena just how 'easy' it is to make a lot of money in law? I recall that you completely embarrassed yourself the last time you talked to her. </p>

<p>Finally, nurses. Take a look at nursing starting salary. Still impressed?</p>

<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

122

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yes, but most doctors easily make that. Lawyers will easily make that, chiropractor, Nurses in many cases, Businessmen will crack 100k easily, investment bankers (many of liberal arts majors), etc...there are tons of ways to make money......engineering and investment banking are just less stable and more political, that's all.

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<p>And again, engineers make far more money than the average person with the average degree. Most liberal arts majors make peanuts. </p>

<p>Tell me again. Since you like Biochem so much, of those who don't make it to medical school, how much money do they make?</p>

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<p>In case, anybody wants to see more high-paying CS jobs. It only took me another couple of minutes to find the following:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=79249%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=79249&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=79577%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=79577&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=78741%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.techiegold.com/main.cfm?page=job_search.detail.cfm&id=78741&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://senior.java.developer.jobs.jobsearchsite.com/JS/General/Job.asp?id=7019193%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://senior.java.developer.jobs.jobsearchsite.com/JS/General/Job.asp?id=7019193&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://senior.java.developer.jobs.jobsearchsite.com/JS/General/Job.asp?id=7019194%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://senior.java.developer.jobs.jobsearchsite.com/JS/General/Job.asp?id=7019194&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J3G2ZL6KXSCJBMKX092%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J3G2ZL6KXSCJBMKX092&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J8H22J64GH1F8TQHZMV%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J8H22J64GH1F8TQHZMV&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J8G7167696119CT3WFX%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://information-technology.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRGC&job_did=J8G7167696119CT3WFX&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.talkaboutjobhunting.com/group/alt.bestjobsusa.computer.jobs/messages/290646.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.talkaboutjobhunting.com/group/alt.bestjobsusa.computer.jobs/messages/290646.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Now of course all of these positions require strong experience. So obviously nobody is going to getting these kinds of jobs right after graduation. However, I would argue that it's probably easier to get the skills necessary to qualify for one of these jobs than it is to become a doctor. </p>

<p>One might say that you might get one of these jobs and then get quickly laid off. But so what? Even if you only work at one of these jobs for 6 months and then get laid off, you still make a lot of money. Heck you would have made far more money in just those 6 months than most people would make in a whole year's worth of working. And you can use that 6 months off to go do what you really like to do, or go work on that degree in nursing, if that's the way you really want to go.</p>

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<p>"One might say that you might get one of these jobs and then get quickly laid off. But so what? Even if you only work at one of these jobs for 6 months and then get laid off, you still make a lot of money."</p>

<p>Brilliant...you're suggesting getting into an unstable job for 6 months to, make 150k/yr=75k in 6 months?? What do you do after 6 months?? Look for another job?? Most of the listings posted above are from headhunters who'll promise you 500k just to lure you in and then, if you survive the interview, will tell you that "you're not good enuf for 500k, but how does 110k sound?"!!!</p>

<p>The average salary for the bulk of engineers in the valley is between 90k and 115k, fullstop. Anything ouside of this curve is considered fringe, highly unstable and is a pump-and-dump gig if ever I heard of one. To make it past that, you better switch careers -- become a director, vp, CEO whatever....engineering school won't prepare you for any of the above.</p>

<p>Doctors on the other hand make 150-200k in a stable, fun enviroment, sheltered from competition, always in demand, and their employers are happy to pay them that much!!! Engineers making 125k will have to put up with the grumblings of upper management about how overpaid they are...they may not get their bonuses, they may get laid off, they may be forced to quit for any number of reasons after they've been used up.</p>

<p>That's the reality -- you can talk to engineers, read the mercury news, whatever. Engineers have among the highest percentage of un-job-satisfaction and many of them are going back to school to get better jobs. I've never heard/read of a doctor quitting his job or going back to school to switch careers.</p>

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Doctors on the other hand make 150-200k in a stable, fun enviroment, sheltered from competition, always in demand

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<p>Supply and demand issue. Physicans control the number of people entering the profession. Engineers do not.</p>

<p>(BTW, "fun environment" is a matter of personal opinion.)</p>

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[quote]
Doctors on the other hand make 150-200k in a stable, fun enviroment, sheltered from competition, always in demand, and their employers are happy to pay them that much!!! Engineers making 125k will have to put up with the grumblings of upper management about how overpaid they are...they may not get their bonuses, they may get laid off, they may be forced to quit for any number of reasons after they've been used up.

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<p>And by the way... did you know that being a billionaire is much better than being an engineer?</p>

<p>Your attitude is that careers can be picked and chosen. You think that everyone can become doctors if they chose to. Its not gonna happen...</p>

<p>And what is your experience as being a doctor? I think you have none.</p>

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<p>Why can't engineers create a society which limits the number of people who can join the engineering profession?</p>

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<p>Engineers have a hard enough time getting people to join that society as it is. (Plus they already DO have limits. They're called engineering classes.) There are plenty of people who aspire to be doctors. There's plenty of shows to influence them to like ER, Grey's Anatomy, and House. Where's all the engineering shows? Right, there aren't any.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Most of the listings posted above are from headhunters who'll promise you 500k just to lure you in and then, if you survive the interview, will tell you that "you're not good enuf for 500k, but how does 110k sound?"!!!

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<p>So you're admittin that they're getting paid 110k then. That's far better than the overwhelming majority of people in the world. So you must admit that these guys are better off than the overwhelming majority are.</p>

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Brilliant...you're suggesting getting into an unstable job for 6 months to, make 150k/yr=75k in 6 months?? What do you do after 6 months?? Look for another job??

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<p>Why not? You just made 75k in just 6 months of work, and now you have 6 months off before you have to find another job. Most Americans can only dream of making 75k in a whole year's worth of work. So once again you're admitting that these engineers are far better off than most people are. </p>

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Doctors on the other hand make 150-200k in a stable, fun enviroment

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<p>Fun environment? Hanging around in a hospital where people are dying is fun? Medicine is arguably the most stressful work environment in the world. Make a mistake, and people die. </p>

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I've never heard/read of a doctor quitting his job or going back to school to switch careers.

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<p>Because once you've put that much time into it, you really have no way out. An engineer has only put in the time for a 4-year degree. A doctor has put in over a decade-and-a-half. There's nowhere to run after that. Pretty hard to reinvent yourself after you've invested that kind of time.</p>

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Physicans control the number of people entering the profession. Engineers do not...Your attitude is that careers can be picked and chosen.

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<p>That's exactly what the problem is. Aehmo continues to ignore the fact that 70,000 Americans graduate with BS engineering degrees every year, yet US med schools matriculate only 17,000 people every year. So even if every one of those engineers applid to med-school, and the med-schools admitted as many as they could, that would still leave over 75% of them without a spot. </p>

<p>However, according to aehmo, every engineer can become a doctor. Twist it around any way you want, and you still have the problem of fitting 70,000 people into 17,000 spots. Aehmo, since you say you're so good at math, why don't you figure out how to do that.</p>

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<p>"Why not? You just made 75k in just 6 months of work, and now you have 6 months off before you have to find another job. Most Americans can only dream of making 75k in a whole year's worth of work."</p>

<p>That's not the way it works....if you're laid off in 6 months, it'll take you another 6 months to find a job....after 15-20 interviews, reference checks, criminal history checks and the the rest of the hoops, it could take you anywhere from 6 months to a year to find the next job!!!!! In that case, instead of making the "grand" 150k/year, you just ended up with 75k/year!! What a "great" "engineering" lifestyle!!! you just got "PUMPED-AND-DUMPED"</p>

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<p>"Where's all the engineering shows? Right, there aren't any." I have to disagree with this one. There are many engineering shows. Here is a short list:
Myth Busters, Modern Marvels, Junkyard Wars, Extreme Engineering, And many more shows on the Discovery, Learning, and History Channels.</p>

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<p>"Myth Busters, Modern Marvels, Junkyard Wars, Extreme Engineering, And many more shows on the Discovery, Learning, and History Channels."</p>

<p>I love those shows but no I'm talking about engineering shows REAL people watch. Sorry Noob, but no one not already interested in that stuff is gonna watch. Now medicine has somewhat of a romaticization to it along with being lawyer. Even crime scene investigation. You tell me one show on primetime that involves engineers in a sexy, late night performance and I'll grant you a "my bad" but with those shows I have to disagree with that one.</p>

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<p>theres that show numbers, that math guys assistant is a computer scientist.</p>

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<p>Close enough. By the way how is that show doing? Even still not truely any pure engineers, but really the more math side of things. Math/math-type profs have been pretty popular from Proof to A Beautiful Mind. So close but I still think I win.</p>

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<p>Did you remember the old TV series "Honey I shrunk the Kids." That's about engineering. LOL</p>

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<p>Haha that's a movie isn't it? Then Disney turned it into a ride. Good for them.</p>

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[quote]
That's not the way it works....if you're laid off in 6 months, it'll take you another 6 months to find a job....after 15-20 interviews, reference checks, criminal history checks and the the rest of the hoops, it could take you anywhere from 6 months to a year to find the next job!!!!! In that case, instead of making the "grand" 150k/year, you just ended up with 75k/year!! What a "great" "engineering" lifestyle!!! you just got "PUMPED-AND-DUMPED"

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<p>Dude, you just said it yourself. You made 75k a year, and you got 6 months off. That's a dream for most people, including most college grads. Tell the dudes working at the mall that they could make 75k working only half a year and they'll be lined up around the block to sign up. Tell all the guys with the liberal arts degrees you can get that and they'll also be lined up around the block.</p>

<p>All you're doing is simply emphasizing how engineering is so much better than the vast majority of all other undergrad majors out there. Thank you for proving my case.</p>

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<p>"Tell the dudes working at the mall that they could make 75k working only half a year and they'll be lined up around the block to sign up."</p>

<p>It takes a lot less than that. Walmart got about 80 applicants per position, for 325 positions, in a shop opened in Chicago. That's more selective than Harvard. <a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-walmart26.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-walmart26.html&lt;/a> The story is more of a comment on how out of touch city planners and/or rich liberals are with the populace, and the effect of imposed, artificially high wages.</p>

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<p>Those people in line must have really wanted to get hired for a union-less "sleepover" minus live-able wages and healthcare/insurance. Oh, Wal-mart :p</p>