<p>These threads often jump to a discussion of HYP, but the vast majority of kids aren’t even applying there, and I didn’t catch if the OP was interested in them.</p>
<p>My two cents: my kids were singers and both submitted arts supplements. They are not spectacular talents; all-state level (which basically means in NY that you can sight read and you manage to perform your solo competently - it does NOT mean you have great vocal ability), local lessons, high school musicals, etc. I think the arts supplements helped them both. </p>
<p>My D was offered a small music scholarship at Franklin & Marshall, and my son was offered a small music scholarship at Hamilton. Neither was interested in a music major. Neither attended those schools. But music was a big part of their high school experience and I think the schools saw that.</p>
<p>They both ended up in a cappella, which I think the schools appreciate. Most schools are looking for kids who will enliven their social atmosphere - often the high school actors will perform in the student run theater club, the budding comics in the improv group, etc. It’s not all about the college-run orchestra. The kids make the social life for the most part, especially at the small colleges mine attend(ed).</p>
<p>I disagree with NSM about music faculty not reviewing art supplements. My son included a 10 minute CD of his singing with all his applications. He had some state recognition and no national recognition. He did write one of his essays on his love of singing and made it clear that he intended to continue singing in college. When he auditioned for the college choirs, he said that it was clear to him that the director had heard his CD before and was hoping he would audition. Now it may be that art supplements pass through various hands in the process - each hand determining if it should be passed higher up - but how will the school <em>know</em> if that student is the next Yo Yo Ma or Berstein if no one listens to it?</p>
<p>My D was encouraged to and did send her music supplements with 3 of her five apps. Those schools made it clear that the materials would be reviewed and would be considered useful in the application process – but as enhancements, not to shore up any weaknesses in the student’s academic record. The other 2 schools did not want the music supplement because she was not applying as a music major. She was accepted at all five schools, including Brown and Penn, both of which received and reviewed her music resume, CD and letter of recommendation from her private teacher. </p>
<p>External, objective assessment of whether a young musician is “very good” , “exceptional” or some other level can be very helpful in gauging how useful a music supplement will be. If your student is conservatory-level, has had some significant audition/competition experience (e.g. auditioning for/attending rigorous summer programs), or has studied/had coaching with a major teacher for the instrument) that data will be interpreted by and be more meaningful to the music faculty that review the arts supplement than to the general admissions staff. (kind of code language, or short hand). Performance experience OUTSIDE of the school orchestra is also important. Participation in a regional youth orchestra will also have more or less weight depending on the reputation and strength of the organization, and the experiences it provided to the student. For example, my D’s youth orchestra got to present a concert in Carnegie Hall, perform on a 10-day European concert tour, present an annual week-long holiday concert series that has raised $$millions for our local children’s cancer center (this counts as commuity service too), and won two ASCAP awards for programming last year.</p>
<p>There really are a lot of very talented young musicians whose experience and accomplishments go well beyond just a solid EC, but they aren’t the next YoYo Ma.
And I believe, based on my D’s experience, that including that information in the application materials helps present a fuller and more interesting profile of the student. Just don’t expect it to be a “magic bullet.”</p>
<p>You can also tell by how the college words the part of the application about sending in supplemental material. Some colleges say, “Don’t send anything in unless you are super exceptional.” Other say, “If you’re really interested in the violin, by all means, send in a CD.” Send a CD in to the latter college, not to the former.</p>
<p>I’m going to continue along DadofB&G’s path. I have no experience with HYP so would assume that an arts supplement at one of those schools would only serve to verify the hundreds of hours an accomplished pre-college musician has spent perfecting his or her craft. I do have experience with LAC’s and two of the LAC’s with Conservatories. Our eldest was a double degree student in Piano Performance plus English and Religion so we had the conservatory/LAC experience where music admission was completely based on the strength of his audition and college admission was based on everything else. </p>
<p>Our younger son was seeking a top LAC with an excellent music department and a great private teacher for his wind instrument so he could continue developing but not pursue a major in music. His school and regional orchestra and band involvement was a huge part of his extra curricular time so he wanted to let the schools he was considering know that he planned to continue this involvement in college. He lined up meetings with the private, adjunct teachers at each school and also played for or met the orchestra conductors and in some cases the jazz band director. The conductors seemed to have a little more time than the academic professors he met as they generally asked to meet us(his parents) and offered additional tours of the music facilities. In two cases when the meetings occurred before a rehearsal, he was asked if he wanted to sit in with the ensemble. Our visits were scheduled specifically so our son could attend a complete rehearsal at each school. This was after he narrowed down his list so it only amounted to four schools.</p>
<p>In all cases, the music people were very pleased that he expressed such a strong interest and encouraged him to also send in the school’s music supplement with his music resume when he submitted his application. In subsequent correspondence, the music directors used language suggesting that based on what they heard they felt his music involvement would, “help his admissions score” or in one case a conductor stated the importance of the music supplement and said,“a favorable evaluation can help your standing a bit.” No promises from anyone, but clearly a little encouragement for having taken the time to make the contacts and send the cd.</p>
<p>S2 also wanted to play a DIII varsity sport, so that factored in to the process. At his top choice, the varsity coach said, “I’m glad you’re a musician, because they probably have more influence in admissions than I do.” Another school was completely different. The coach told him that he received a read on his academic stats, that he was a top recruit and that he would support his application if he applied ED1. (We never received this in writing so did not allow our son to count on this man’s promise.) Our son only considered schools that had a DIII varsity team in his sport. He eliminated schools where either the coach or the conductor seemed the least bit hesitant about a student participating in both music and sports. </p>
<p>The small schools with tough academic admissions standards still want to field teams and ensembles so I do think students with good academic stats can get a little bump; however, I doubt being an athlete or musician can make up for any deficiencies.</p>
<p>vicariousparent, “merely excellent” doesn’t mean too much at Yale, if that definition equates to being competitive in an audition based conservatory level program. Same applies to Harvard and Princeton in general. The rest of the Ivies may be a bit more instrument contingent, but it would have to be on an “underrepresented” instrument. </p>
<p>NSM: I used Yo-Yo Ma and Bernstein because you used them as examples of musicians whose ability was sufficient to “stand out for music”. With someone of that caliber and renown, they musical abilities as a factor in their admission at Harvard or elsewhere would be considerably more than a “tip”. They would be probably higher than the “likely letters” that highly recruited athletes receive or the relatively few uber-geniuses that receive them.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that you have to be an internationally known musical superstar to submit a CD (which would seem superfluous in any event), but I think you should be good enough to seriously consider conservatories or their equivalent. Borrowing from Violadad’s post, I think that the quality of your music is a factor in how big a “tip” you may get. For the superstar, it’s a major tip. For the exceptional musician who would be close to a “shoe-in” at Julliard or Curtis, it would be a good tip. And for the “merely excellent” musician, it’s probably only a minor tip assuming that you will continue in college. Even that best colleges are looking for musicians who will enrich the life of the college through their musical ECs. Finally, if you are only average or even a little above (good luck making this determination), I would not bother sending in the CD.</p>
<p>My kid has had classical voice lessons for several years, was in all-state choir, got superior ratings in state-wide vocal competitions, some other awards, and had solos in the school musical. She has not yet shown any signs of being the next Maria Callas. These facts will be clear from her application. </p>
<p>How will it help the admissions officers to listen to a 4 minute recording of her singing? Or have a music department person listen to her sing?</p>
<p>What are they going to say at best? That she has a very nice voice and has had some training. </p>
<p>Wouldn’t the facts already listed in the application tell them that anyway?</p>
<p>“I don’t believe that you have to be an internationally known musical superstar to submit a CD (which would seem superfluous in any event), but I think you should be good enough to seriously consider conservatories or their equivalent.”</p>
<p>how good do they have to be to seriously consider conservatories?</p>
<p>Getting into places like Julliard or Eastman for music is as hard as getting into Harvard for academics. One has to be far more than a very good instrumentalist or vocalist to have any chance.</p>
<p>I always wince when that comparison is made. You get into Juliard through music and music alone (or dance, acting, etc). Your grades and SAT scores don’t count for squat there. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Harvard was the academic version of Juliard</p>
<p>That would be great. But would they ever say “We need someone like that here at HYP University” ;)</p>
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<p>I think that is the best advice. And some colleges (like Yale) warn you that sending in a not-so-thrilling arts supplement could actually hurt you.</p>
<p>Thank you all for inputs.
vicariousparent, do you know any colleges other than Yale does similar warning?</p>
<p>My S is looking at MIT as his first choice at the moment. I think it’s a little bit above his match level regarding his SAT score (730/790/710, Math2 800, Physics in Oct). I hope my understanding is not wrong. MIT admission site tells music art supplement should be sent to a designated e-mail address in mp3 format. So the sent mp3 files are to be heard by someone at least.
Stanford admission site tells “applicants with extraordinary talent” may send arts supplements. In case of music, the recording is limited to 10 min. Does anyone know this “10 minutes” is very strict? They also offer live audition! </p>
<p>My S is preparing Wieniawski Polonaise de Concert in D, 1st mvt and some of Bach Solo Sonata as a contrasting piece to the former. It may take 20 minutes. If time restriction for art supplements is generally strict, he should re-think about what to submitt.</p>
<p>Fiddlin, Is your son considering small liberal arts colleges? My son, who graduated from Williams, was involved in art, not music, but several of his friends were accomplished musicians (although none was a music major). Definitely at Williams, and most likely at other LACs, musical ability is a considerable asset in admissions. There are many performance opportunities, even for non-majors, and the corallary is also true: they need musicians. </p>
<p>Based on advice given my son when he applied, I would strongly suggest that your son submit a performance tape and emphasize his involvement in music in all aspects of his application. Especially at LACs he should consider submitting a “music package” that would include a resume of his awards and accomplishments, music classes and grades, a supplemental recommendation from an instructor or mentor. As others have recommended he should set up an appointment with the music department, even though he doesn’t plan to major in music. </p>
<p>I note from your other posts that you are Japanese and that your son is interested in math. I’d suggest that he take a look at Williams. My guess is that they’d be very interested in a high achieving Asian violinist. Excellent math/economics/music departments. Double and even triple majoring is common.</p>
<p>“I always wince when that comparison is made. You get into Juliard through music and music alone (or dance, acting, etc). Your grades and SAT scores don’t count for squat there. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Harvard was the academic version of Juliard”</p>
<p>My point is that the musician applicants who stand out for music at places like HPY are ones who could get into places like Julliard. Joe Lin, for instance, turned down Julliard to major in religion at Harvard. I’m sure that his application to Harvard stood out because of his music: He was a prodigy.</p>
<p>"This isn’t your ordinary student concert.</p>
<p>Not that any of Harvard’s talented undergraduate musicians can be called ordinary, but even in such brilliant company the star of this event shines with a unique luster.</p>
<p>Joseph Lin ’00, a concentrator in the Study of Religion and a resident of Mather House, also happens to be one of the hottest young violinists on the concert circuit these days, and he has the resum</p>
<p>One problem is that many people often don’t know the difference between “conservatory quality musician” and above average musician. I have heard some arts supplements from the latter who think they are the former. That isn’t to say there isn’t plenty of opportunity for above average musicians in non-conservatory environments, just that people (both students and parents) often mis-judge ability/talent, etc., particularly if said student is a big fish in a little sea. It helps to have an independent, professional appraisal of talent, as that is the best way to determine the true level of any individual student.</p>
