How to decide between high schools for better chances in college admissions?

Parents Forum
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If quality of education matters, also (if information is available) consider how well A students in each school do on SAT subject tests (for associated regular high school courses) or AP tests (for AP courses). A high school where A students in AP courses typically earn 5 scores on the associated AP tests is likely doing better than one where A students in AP courses typically earn 1 scores on the associated AP tests.

Yes, if there is significant “rationing” of desired courses that students are academically capable of taking, that is a negative for the high school.

But also consider whether the spending of money on private school tuition will result in significant financial limitations on the kid’s college choice. Getting admitted to a college does not matter if you cannot afford to pay for it.

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I’ll add my voice to those who are saying that your kid should go to the school in which they’ll thrive best.

Our situation was somewhat like @mathmom’s, though our high School is pretty good. However, it still doesn’t have the rankings of multiple other public or private schools. What it does have, though, are many more opportunities than many private schools or public schools in much richer areas. I do not think that our kid would have done better in any private school, or even in a top specialized public school like IMSA.

If you’re already thinking of college, than also think of which college would be best for your kid. Sending your kid to an expensive private school in the hope that they’ll get into Harvard or Yale is not a wise move, both because schools like that are a long shot for most anybody, and because those may not be the best schools for your kid.

BTW, SAT scores and matriculation rates posted by private schools can be deceptive. Public schools cannot expel students who are failing or even doing poorly, while private schools do this regularly. This will increase the average SATs and matriculation rates at a private school, without actually telling you much about whether an average student is actually performing better (a student who is average for the entire population, not the average student of a school). So do not use those as solid measures of student success.

@ucbalumnus gives some better measures of quality of education than average SAT scores.

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Our kids stayed at their K-12 private school for high school. We got a very good discount since I worked there. The school is associated with the Episcopal Church, but it’s liberal as far as churches go. The school has quite a bit of religious diversity and you are not required to be Episcopal to attend. While we aren’t very religious, we do like the values that were enforced and promoted. Being a good person, helping the less fortunate, etc. The emphasis on community service was also something we liked. The good college counseling was a plus too.

That said, we have nothing against public schools and I would say do what you think is best for your child and what you can afford. If you live in an area with wonderful public schools it would probably be better to have your kids go public. I’d say make a pro and con list, visit schools. You know your kids best, and you know what is best for them!

24

Thank you so much to the generosity of all the posters here who share their advice. It is so helpful to a new member like me.

On this topic, I am also completely torn on the decision of HS for my DS who is a rising 9th grader…

The public HS is our current area is a middle-of-the-road HS (Rated A on niche, just 1 or 2 Ivy League admissions each year, ~12% admits to UC Berkeley as a reference) and we are debating whether we should move to allow DS to go to a top-rated, competitive public school (Rated within top 50 in usnews, A+ on nice.com, several Ivy admits, ~16-19% admits to UC Berkeley etc) ito increase the chances of T15 college admissions.

I realize that colleges look at the holistic application, but I believe it’s a good idea to be in the top 5-10% of your school academically to increases chances of admission to good schools. Given that, and considering that DS is in top 30% of his current middle school class from a GPA perspective, is it better to be

  1. middle of the pack in a top school or middle of the pack in an average school?
  2. middle of pack in average school or lower pack in a top school?

@ucbalumnus, How does one find how well A students in a school do on SAT subject tests (for associated regular high school courses) or AP tests (for AP courses)?

Looking forward to your responses.

25

Based on the reference to US Berkeley admissions, I assume that you are in California.

I think that most “middle of the pack” students in California pretty much end up at CSU’s or going the CC/transfer route. Some may be accepted to one of the less selective UC’s — but keep in mind that the UC system is designed around the expectation that it is taking the top 9% of students from the high schools. They use their on formula rather than actual ranking within the school – but “lower pack in a top school” probably wouldn’t qualify.

That being said, of course you can’t know from your son’s middle school grades how he will do in high school. For the UC system, the grades in 10th & 11th grade count the most – and your son may very well surprise you.

But the same advice that was given to the OP applies – choose the high school where your son is most likely to thrive. For most “middle of the pack” kids, that probably wouldn’t be in a more competitive environment.

How does he feel about moving? Is he happy at his current middle school, well adjusted socially? Or would he also like a change of environment?

Keep in mind that a change to a new district can mean that he would have the added social difficulties of starting at a new high school where he didn’t know other students – whereas in the local district, he’d be going to the same high school as many of his middle school friends.

I don’t think it makes much sense from your post to seek out a more challenging school for your son. If the school in your current district was very weak – that would be a different issue – but it’s good enough to send at least a couple of kids to Ivies every year, it’s clearly got an appropriate level of academics available (APs, honors, etc.)

I think California kids are lucky to have a range of options. No shame at all if he ends up at a CSU.

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I agree with the others that you should choose based on factors other than college admissions. But if that’s going to be a consideration, you should look at the full class: where do the middle and the bottom of the class go? Don’t just be wowed by how many Ivies or elite schools. What’s the overall picture?

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The only caveat is that there are private HSs in NJ and NYC that are better conduits to elite colleges than most of the good public high schools. They have private college counselors and colleges know that a student that did well at those HSs will do well at the college. They also tend to be very competitive for top grades. A friend’s DD attended a top prep school and went to an Ivy. Not sure that would have happened from the local public HS. Of course that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be doing as well as she is now even if she went to a “lesser” college, but if a top 15 is your child’s goal, there may be a better chance from a top private HS.

Of course, most graduates of even the top privates likely go to schools that they would (or at least could) have attended from a public high school. The bottom line is what feels like the best environment and what you can afford, without going into college savings.

On the flip side, I also know a girl that transferred from a decent private school to a prep school in her sophomore year or HS where she struggled and likely did not do as well in the end as she would have from her more local private school.

You said she goes to the City for her EC. Is that EC offered at the private HS?

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This is NOT middle of the road…it sounds like these admission rates align with or exceed the general admission rates at these colleges.

If you are looking for a guarantee high school that will guarantee admission to Cal or the Ivies…you won’t find that…anywhere.

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Parents of students in very expensive prep schools might have an easier time sending their kids to very expensive colleges! So that isnt the best indicator of the quality of the high school.

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“Manageable” should mean no significant hit to family finances that change the lifestyle you have chosen. It should not mean lost vacations or reduced retirement funding.

What about any siblings? What will the impact on their life be if the money goes to this kid?

I’m not from the NE and know so many go to so many excellent schools without private school education. I also define excellent differently- many of those schools touted here on CC are no better than our Midwest options for getting a good education- for gifted as well as good students. You can choose to play the prestige game or not.

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Echoing the thoughts of others here, pick the school where he/she will be most involved and engaged. Their success in HS (and in college) is largely dependent on how invested they are in the school. Assuming they each offer similar acedemic opportunities. How’s the commute to each school? Which ones have strong programs alligned to their interest (Performing Arts, Sports, Voulenteer…) I do think some schools provide more of an easier pathway to certain Universities based on realtionships that have been developed between the HS guidance and admissions (they refer more kids, and more kids accept) . But thinking a rising Frosh will change their mind a dozen times before graduation on what they want to do. Good Luck with your decision

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@gohigh - Do not let yourself get over-excited about USNWR rankings and ratings from Niche. What matters is your kid, your budget, your commute.

Some of the best advice I ever received was to not move between middle school and high school. Often the social groups formed in middle school stick together in high school. That definitely was the experience of my kid. She is in grad school now, and still is tight with her pals from middle school. You know your kid’s friends now. You know which of their parents are reliable, and which are unreliable. You know where the kids live, which activities they participate in, and who is good for car-pooling. If one parent suddenly becomes the one who lets the kids drink at their house, one of the other parents who you already know and have a relationship with will clue you in.

33

I live in NYC but my offspring attended a selective public school, not a private one.

That said, absent special circumstances, I don’t think a second or third tier independent school in the City is going to give her any advantage over a good public in terms of college admissions. As others have said, looking at the college matriculation list isn’t helpful, because you’ve no way of knowing how many celebrities, children of celebrities, developmental cases, legacies, URMs, and recruited athletes are on the lists you see.

The special circumstances might involve ECs, but you say they are equivalent at the 2 schools. If you had a D who excelled at field hockey, fencing, squash, etc., and these aren’t available at your public school, that could make a difference. If you had a pre-Julliard kid, that could make a difference.

Schools also have cultures. It may sound sexist, but especially for a girl, it can be hard to have less money than your classmates. I have a young neighbor, now in her early 30s, who attended one of the very best all-girls schools in NYC. They wore uniforms. But I once jokingly asked her what the “in” brands were, thinking it would make no difference with a uniform. She rapidly recited a list. She named a sneaker brand and then said “but the kids without $ wear Sketchers,” a brand of coat, “but the kids without $ wear ___,” etc. And, believe it or not, she was a nice kid. She was just very, very aware of which girls in her class couldn’t afford the “other” uniform. Most of the girls had weekend homes, and the girls without them sometimes were left out of weekend activities.

Also, a lot of kids in the NYC independent schools use tutors. I’m not talking about kids at the bottom of the class. I’m talking about kids who use tutors to make As in everything. See https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/education/08tutors.html or https://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedshift/career-confidential-the-nyc-tutor-who-helps-rich It can be very hard to keep up if you can’t afford to pay for tutors for your child. (Tutors usually cost $70 or more per hour.) Before I’d enroll my own kid in an independent school, I’d try to find out how common tutoring is at the school, i.e., what percentage of the class is being tutored in one or more subjects.

Suburban schools have cultures too. At some, it’s all about sports and it can be hard for a kid who just isn’t interested in them to fit in. Or at a few, the competition is all about the car you drive. So, again, see what you can find out.

Good luck!

34

What are the class sizes? Are the public school teachers going to be able to give time and attention to your kid, or are there 30 students in an AP English class? This is the case at my son’s school, and while I was really impressed with his writing instruction in elementary school, his experience in middle school and high school has been very inconsistent.

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@jonri Tutors are everywhere. At our suburban Boston HS there are families that use a tutor for every subject so a kid can be in advanced class. Tutors start at $125 per hour. And don’t forget the private coaches. We have two brothers on our HS soccer team who have had a private soccer coach five days per week since early elementary school. It’s insane.

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@jonri Totally agree that it depends on what is meant by “good” vs “top”. A decent public school vs an OK private is not going to provide that much advantage.

And tutors are everywhere. The foreign language, math and science teachers at our local HS make a lot of extra money tutoring kids in their subjects who are in other sections.

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I guess tutors are more widespread than I realized. Still, in figuring out whether you can afford private school, I think you should factor in the cost of tutors if you may need them.

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And a big public high school may have more than one culture. Both my kids were part of the nerdy Science Olympiad group. The younger one also hung out with the music kids. Many were as academically inclined as the SO kids, but many were not. Then there was a large group who actually cared about how the football team did (generally very well), but my kids knew very few of that crowd.

39

Thank you all for your comments - so much to think about.

Yes, we we are in CA. I am not sure if public schools are required to publish what colleges the kids go to, but I am struggling to find this info. Luckily UC shares school admissions by source and that is all I have to go by.

DS has straight As in 8th grade so far and so yes, it is possible that he will rise to the occasion in these coming crucial years.

40

@gohigh The problem with your two scenarios is that “middle of the pack” anywhere has a very low chance of getting in to a T-15 college, unless they have another compelling hook. However, with straight As, your kid is definitely not in the middle of the pack. Based on the differences you reported in matriculation to colleges, I would focus more on where your kid will thrive. After all, 12% is no different from 17% for kids in the top 5% and for kids in the middle 50%.

Look at atmosphere, course offerings - forget about # of APs, look which has classes that will engage and interest your kid. Look at activities - which school has the ECs which align with your kids passions. Look at the student body - where will your kid find kindred spirits and peers. They’re both public schools, which I think is good (I’m a huge proponent of public schools when feasible).

Your kid will hopefully find the college where he fits the best. For that he needs to find his strengths and weaknesses, his interests and passions. He needs to spend time being a high school kid, not on being accepted to the most prestigious college he can.

Others may disagree with me, but I do not see being accepted to one of the most prestigious colleges as the most laudable goal. When kids start threads here with “I have dreamed of getting into Harvard/Yale/Stanford since I was a little kid” it makes me sad. It is such a hollow, paltry dream for such talented, smart kids. These kids should be dreaming about the great things that they will do during and after their college years. College should be a means to achieve the dream, not the dream itself.

Making a kid’s high school years all about their college admissions plays directly into that. That is also how you get parents and kids who are totally devastated when they don’t get into their “dream school”, parents and kids who feel that they have wasted their high school years. All of their achievements seem meaningless because they did not help them in their main goal - acceptance to a prestigious college. Nothing that the kid does in HS has a value in and of itself - its only value is in how it will help the kid get into One Of Those Colleges.

I’ll step down from my soap box now, if I may.

PS. Your kid seems amazing, and will likely do amazingly in either High School, BTW.