How to find colleges without partying atmosphere and with predominantly serious students?

Parents Forum
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<p>Today's article in the NY Times on the rape at Hobart has prompted me to ask for help here. DS is a rising HS junior, so college is on the horizon. He is not a partier or a drinker/drugger. He's intense, and spends much of his time these days agonizing about dire poverty in developing countries and the suffering of animals. He has read a lot of dense papers on things like the evidence for animal consciousness/sentience/intelligence, moral philosophies, including effective altruism and various theories about animals. He engages in email discussions with a person who blogs on moral philosophies of animal rights, and he gets preprints of publications. He's shown me the papers he's reading, and they are very dense (and they've caused me to re-examine some of my beliefs). He's agonizing about not having enough money to donate to charity and he's started selling his things. He is considering becoming one of those people who make good salaries but live on $10k/year, donating the rest. </p>

<p>All this is background to my strong belief that he would not enjoy a campus where most of the kids were not serious. He is social, and has a number of very good friends. Some of these friendships date back to grade school. But his friends tend to be "nerds." Some of them drink or use pot, but so far DS has not (I can't be sure that he will never use these substances and I think it would be a bad idea to send him to an environment where most kids do). </p>

<p>Any suggestions about how to get this information on colleges? My impression, before reading today's article, was that Hobart is not a party school. Clearly, I was wrong.</p>

<p>He will be aiming for good but not super-selective schools. Judging from standardized tests so far, I expect his math SAT to be sky-high and his verbal SAT good but not extremely high. He has a 3.8 average with a rigorous courseload (except for English and Spanish, where he is not in honors/AP courses) and very, very, very strong music ECs in piano and trumpet. 760 on Chem SAT 2 and he will take two more next year, math or physics and history, and he will probably do even better on those.</p>

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<p>If he were a she, I would recommend women’s colleges… It is a reach, but Swarthmore has a pretty large number of kids like that. He might find a fit at Macalester – they DO party, but there are a lot of kids who are concerned about issues like poverty and social justice. Oberlin is another suggestion, again a strong social justice movement there. Also they have the conservatory there, although he would have to explore how much he could participate if he decides not to apply to the conservatory itself.</p>

<p>Honestly, you are going to find some partying at every school these days, impossible to avoid. The question is, where would he also find a fairly large number of like-minded individuals who aren’t into partying.</p>

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<p>Interesting as Hobart has long been known as a bit of a party school for the well-off private school set back when I was in HS and early college in the mid-late '90s. </p>

<p>Some colleges I’d add to a list for your S in light of his interests/concerns in no particular order:</p>

<p>Swarthmore
UChicago
Wesleyan
Brown
Oberlin
Reed
Antioch</p>

<p>To find out this information, talk with alums…especially those who graduated within the last few years and more importantly…OVERNIGHT VISIT ON A RANDOM REGULAR CLASS DAYS so your S can get the full atmosphere without the college pulling a Potemkin Village deal. </p>

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<p>Exactly, intparent! That’s what I’m looking for. I’m well aware of Swarthmore, and I think it would be great for him, but I am pretty sure that he would not be admitted. I’ll check with the guidance office this year, but I don’t think we can consider it as anything but a high reach, and maybe not even that. It’s too bad, because DS is very young for his grade, and he is maturing intellectually at a rapid rate. He won’t have the HS grades to get into a school like Swarthmore, although if he did get in I believe that he would do well. </p>

<p>I will look into Macalester - great suggestion. I’m aware of Oberlin and it’s on my mental list. I’m pretty sure he could get it, based on guidance office information. I was in last spring and checked out a few schools on their detailed printouts. One big issue in his college selection is that he really needs a school where he can participate at a high level in music without being a music major. He will probably end up in the sciences.</p>

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<p>I second Brown. Also look at William and Mary, if you’re aiming lower. Their partying is very minimal, and there are some very serious students.</p>

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<p>Swarthmore was the school that leapt to mind for me, too. You might look into College of the Atlantic, which has an unusual focus that might suit him very well. I would also look at Warren Wilson and Hampshire, and I agree sbout Oberlin.</p>

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<p>Reed is going to have heavy partying. Maybe more weed than keggers, but still… </p>

<p>U of Chicago has taken a turn toward partying in recent years. At my D’s accepted student overnight there was a full bar set up in her host’s room, and they were disappointed that she wanted to go to the accepted student Quiz Bowl team get-together instead of going out drinking with them. Obviously it is not all party-party-party, it will never make the top 15 party school lists, but that kind of fun doesn’t die there any more. She chose another school, partly due to that part of the experience.</p>

<p>I think of Wesleyan as having a lot of earnest students, but also quite a party scene.</p>

<p>Your student doesn’t necessarily have to overnight on a school day, but he should try to visit while classes are in session and sit in on a class if possible. And eat in the cafeteria, too. Along with going on the tour, of course.</p>

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<p>University of Rochester. Case Western. Sarah Lawrence. Bard. Vassar. Also, look at the Great Books schools: the two St. Johns and Shimer College.</p>

<p>This is my own preference: I think it’s worth looking at STEM-focused schools, even if (unlike the OP) your student doesn’t want to be a STEM major. I’m a verbal person who likes <em>engineers</em> as opposed to engineering. I like being surrounded by smart, focused people, even if I don’t speak their language. Many such schools NEED humanities majors, and may be admissions bargains for your bright student with an imperfect record.</p>

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<p>Even if a large number or majority of a given college’s students aren’t into partying, if partying is prevalent on campus due to a minority critical mass of partying students, that could still ruin the college experience for the serious non-partier student. </p>

<p>Some issues I’ve observed while visiting HS classmates at such schools and reasons cited for why some transferred out:</p>

<p>Involuntary sleep deprivation from noise/drunk students from parties on and/or off-campus.</p>

<p>Not being able to study even in the library due to noise issues from same.</p>

<p>RAs/campus cops not being able to enforce noise ordinances due to being overwhelmed with complaints/alum pressures.</p>

<p>Dealing with drunk rowdy partying students on issues like noise issues, vandalism, and belligerency. </p>

<p>Prevalence of anti-intellectualism from a critical mass of partying students which can stymie more serious students and bring down the level of academic discourse in class. </p>

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<p>Is he looking at engineering - many of the nerd-filled tech schools will not be big party places!</p>

<p>Also, advice which will run counter to what some will say - in a bigger school it might be easier to find your social group of non-partiers than in a small school. </p>

<p>Schools with strong connections to business (co-op programs like at Northeastern) will have a group of very serious practical minded students who will not be partiers.</p>

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<p>You could try Carleton, but if your son is unlikely to be admitted to Swarthmore, Carleton might be a reach. I was going to suggest Reed myself, for their highly self motivated academic atmosphere, but perhaps that was simply based off first impressions.</p>

<p>Any school is going to have partying in it at some level (unless looking into really strict Catholic schools or schools like BYU) but your daughter has a choice in whether to participate in it. A couple of my good friends have gone to so called “party schools” but don’t participate in it whatsoever and they have turned out fine. No one is going to force her to do something she doesn’t want to do, there are other options available</p>

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<p>Not necessarily. In the Boston area, the college which threw some of the best campus parties while I lived there in the early '00s was MIT. </p>

<p>Not saying they’re a big party school, but MIT does have a work hard/play hard type campus atmosphere. </p>

<p>Also, according to a HS buddy and older cousin who both were engineering majors at URochester, a college well-known and respected for its engineering/CS majors among engineering/tech employers, it was the engineering majors who were the hardest partiers on campus and dominated the frat scene. </p>

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<p>I have to say that MIT had plenty of partying, back in the day. :)</p>

<p>Vassar might be another possibility for him, and as a male it might be slightly easier to get in. The kid I know at Vassar is heavily into environmentalism, and seemed to find many others there.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the very helpful posts! </p>

<p>I am virtually certain that Brown, Wesleyan, and UChicago are out of the question, even as reaches. I will double-check, though, when I can get to the school’s huge printout. </p>

<p>He is not interested in engineering, and he will not be a humanities major. I like the idea of a STEM-focused school, as long as it’s strong in non-engineering sciences. He will probably not compete well against engineering applicants, though, and he will not be able to help fill the humanities quota!</p>

<p>U of Rochester is already on the (very short) list, Hanna! At the moment, it’s the only school on the list. I was looking for a great safety school, as my son had become very anxious about college last year. After he came home and told me that the valedictorian was “only” going to Columbia, not to the “good” schools (HYP), I had a long talk with him. (He heard these crazy ideas from other kids, not from anyone at the school. They have a very healthy, sane attitude there about college admissions.) I broached the idea of finding one school that (1) he would be happy at and (2) would almost certainly accept him. Posters here suggested URochester, and I found out from the school printout that at least a dozen kids from his HS had been admitted there in the past 3 years, most with grades and course rigor below his, and with SAT scores below where I expect his to be. He was incredibly relieved and happy when I told him about it. And he stopped thinking about college.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, a big selling point for URochester was the Eastman School of Music. Since then, I’ve learned that not only would he not have the opportunity to participate in anything at the Eastman School, the Eastman students take all the good spots in the UR music groups. So it may come off the list.</p>

<p>The “great books” schools would probably not be a good fit for him, unless they are stronger in sciences than I think. I will look into them and the others that have been suggested.</p>

<p>Cobrat, thank you for that post! It perfectly summarizes my concerns (and adds a few I hadn’t thought of). </p>

<p>kiddie, I think you may be right about a larger school, especially if he can get into an honors college.</p>

<p>About the “great books” schools, DS has never been a reader. He has been able to read well, starting at the usual time. But he’s never enjoyed reading, except for non-fiction in areas of interest, some fiction and even poetry that he’s read for school and enjoyed because of great teaching, and some series that I found for him when he was younger. </p>

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<p>If you are on this coast, it’s definitely UCSD. It’s not known as a party school and 1st for positive impact, top for vegans friendly, and top for peace corps services. Who knows he could be a doctor and helping people?</p>

<p><a href=“http://ucpa.ucsd.edu/resources/campus-profile/”>http://ucpa.ucsd.edu/resources/campus-profile/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thank you, DrGoogle! USC was also recommended to me by a poster on the other thread I started. And UCSD sounds like another good possibility. Vegan-friendly is a big factor, as he is now almost a vegan. And he is very strong-willed and never cheats. He stopped eating meat more than 5 years ago and has never given in to temptation. He ate fish and seafood until recently, when he learned that fish do have intelligence and are capable of suffering.</p>

<p>We are on the east coast, and I prefer that he be closer, but he may like the idea of going to CA.</p>

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<p>Honestly, all schools have some level of partying. Typically, colleges without Greek life tend to have smaller partying scenes, so tell him to start there. Also, if he goes to a large school, even though there may be a big party scene, he will be able to find more people who don’t want to party. However, most prestigious schools have a big party scene. My d spent the night at Swarthmore when she visited. And she heard several huge parties in one night. It’s really unavoidable. His best bet is to go to a university with mostly commuter students.</p>

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<p>Another suggestion when researching colleges - check out what percentage of the students are involved in greek life (this stat is easy to find) - since he will not be into that he will not want to be on a campus where most kids are.</p>

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<p>I know that almost all schools have some partying, but there has to be a lot of variability. He can choose whether or not to participate, of course, but he is social and it would not be good if the only social opportunities are wild parties. And I don’t want a heavy partying environment to tip him over the edge into drinking or trying pot. </p>

<p>I’m surprised that there was a lot of partying at Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>The kid may not want much of it, but a kid seeking an intellectually passionate environment with serious students does not want a commuter school. This is not a good recommendation. We see posts out here pretty often where parents start out looking for a “no party” solution. Except for BYU, it probably doesn’t exist. Eventually they compromise on the schools with less partying… </p>

<p>OP, no one has mentioned substance free housing yet. Many colleges offer this option as well. Some of the students also may share your student’s interests, too (social justice, etc.). A word of caution that some students live in sub free housing because of past substance abuse issues and their parents make them… and at some colleges it is just a wing or even a set of grouped rooms if they can’t fill a full dorm with students who want this. Still, a way to possibly find like-minded students for your son. Also, in a lot of colleges they are mixed age housing, so a good way to meet students who are not just freshman, too – at some colleges they are a very welcoming and tightknit group. Your son should check them out (especially at accepted student visits) if he is interested.</p>