<p>Thanks, gandalf78, and all. I’m vaguely aware of Furman, and Earlham, Wheaton, and some other that have been mentioned here. I am making a list of all suggestions and will check them all out, even the ones that I think are out of reach (Brown, Haverford, maybe Brandeis). I hope that my son’s preferences become clearer as the time approaches. He used to say that he wanted to live at home and go to college nearby. I told him that he would probably feel differently when the time came. He’s always said that he wants to at least be close enough to come home on weekends. He is a homebody, so I was assuming that we’d only be looking at colleges within driving distance. Then, about 6 months ago, he said that he would be willing to go anywhere in the US, that maybe it would be nice to live in a completely different place for 4 years. So that opened up the possibilities considerably. I hope that he ends up within driving distance, because it would be hard to have him so far away that he wouldn’t be able to come home for Thanksgiving. But he may very well choose a school 3000 miles away.</p>
<p>What about Deep Springs College? It’s a huge reach for anyone, but it sounds like something he might be interested in.</p>
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<p>Unless things have changed, Deep Springs College is only 2 years long and is currently in the midst of a dispute over whether to remain all-male or go co-ed. </p>
<p>If one goes to Deep Springs, he or possibly she will need to revisit applying to college for the last 2 years. </p>
<p>Deep Springs is a working cattle ranch, is it not? For someone with the OP’s son’s convictions, I don’t think that would work. :)</p>
<p>I don’t think the 2-year aspect is a reason not to go to Deep Springs. I understand that it is a lot easier for DS grads to transfer to top schools than your average transfer. It is an extraordinary experience. And it’s free.</p>
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<p>True. However, a large part of that is admission standards to get into 2-year DS is about as high/higher than the most elite universities…including HYPSMCC. </p>
<p>I have heard about Deep Springs, and I’m fascinated by it. It sounds like a wonderful place. Consolation is right that it would NOT be right for DS, who is a major animal rights person. </p>
<p>And I have also heard that it’s very hard to get into. </p>
<p>I think that DS could be fairly called the most selective school in the nation. :)</p>
<p>DS grads don’t need to worry about their transfer prospects. They can’t necessarily pick the top school of their choice, but they are more or less certain to get into one of Chicago, Hopkins, Berkeley, HYS, etc.</p>
<p>Deep Springs is not a “cattle ranch”. It is a self sustaining ranch. They have cattle, chickens, dairy cows, etc and grow their own food. I missed that the OPs S was concerned with animal rights. I thought his concern was human rights, poverty, etc. I mentioned it because it sounded like something he MIGHT be interested in and it is a deeply intellectual place with very serious students and no party atmosphere.</p>
<p>I agree with those who say that there is partying at every school, and the key is to make sure that your kid has plenty of interesting alternatives.</p>
<p>Regarding Oberlin, there is at least one alumnus from the mid-1990s who strenuously disagrees with Cobrat: Gary Shteyngart. Shteyngart devotes a whole chapter in his new memoir, Little Failure, to the partying excesses of Oberlin in the mid-1990s. He says that the quantities of beer and marijuana that most students consumed “redefined the term ‘copious’” and that “for those interested, there is also a decent supply of heroin and coaine.” He says: “On my first evening at Oberlin I will smoke a half-dozen joints and drink the Beers of the World, or at least a six-pack of Milwaukee’s Best . . . In the next year, I will drink and smoke, smoke and drink, trip and fall, fall and trip” in a series of “endless alcoholic and narcotic exploits.” He describes the girls in his dorm regularly “loudly vomiting Milwaukee’s Best.” He claims that he and other students spent all day long drunk and stoned, and that he exited Oberlin as a raging alcoholic because of all of the partying. (He does admit that he got started down the road to alcoholism while at Stuyvesant High School). </p>
<p>I’m not questioning Cobrat’s own account of his own experience at Oberlin, but I’m just pointing out the obvious: Blanket statements that “there was very little alcohol at School X when I went there” have to be taken with a grain of salt. </p>
<p>For whatever it’s worth, I spent major chunks of 1995-1997 living in my boyfriend’s dorm at Oberlin, and likewise saw lots of pot and less alcohol than you’d expect at a rural, residential, coed, secular school. Not a whole lot of getting wasted and puking. I’m not debating that a budding alcoholic could find allies and support, but I think it would have been darn hard to find another residential, coed, secular school with less drunken raging.</p>
<p>My D isn’t into drugs or alcohol, socially conscious and a very serious student; she’s an excellent musician and wanted good musical opportunities but didn’t want to major in music. Emory University has been a great fit for her academically and socially (sophomore next fall.) Like any college, they have their share of partiers but there’s something for everyone with all the campus activities and groups. She eliminated schools with large greek scenes, Division I sports, and dull towns where there wasn’t anything to do but party on weekends. Her high school has 1,400 students and she wanted a college which wasn’t too extreme in comparison. She’s also a homebody, but for someone studying foreign languages I encouraged her to step outside her comfort zone for 4 years (we’re from the NE) and it’s been very liberating for her. Atlanta is an easy non-stop plane ride home which made the final decision easier.</p>
<p>Then Gary Shteyngart is really doing the school a disservice in his new book! For many readers, his account will be the only impression they ever get about the school.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how positive an ambassador Lena Dunham is either (although I enjoy some of her work). </p>
<p>The best way to avoid drugs and alcohol is have your child live at home while attending college, and be home every night without fail. My parents had to do that to my brother after he started drinking and smoking pot - and failing his courses too. There are schools where that would matter less, but if your son has the stats to get into a better school, there will be self-selection for students who work hard.</p>
<p>I went to an Ivy, not HYP, which was pretty laid back, but the drinking and worse was pretty limited to certain (most definitely not all) fraternities and sororities. You could easily avoid it, and you could find things to do at night with little to no drinking. Literally a few places would have some wine, and monitor how much people were drinking.</p>
<p>Another idea is living on-campus at a mostly commuter school. They tend to have far less partying.</p>
<p>Here’s a link about Hobart’s “partying”:
<a href=“Hobart and William Smith Colleges - Niche”>http://colleges.niche.com/hobart--and--william-smith-colleges/nightlife/</a></p>
<p>IMHO, and having gotten drunk enough to almost die while in college, the problem is that most people, parents included, don’t really think about how alcohol works before they drink. If you start downing some grain punches (like I did), taste like sour kool aid, you’ll be fine and dandy until the first one kicks in. Which could be after you had your fifth or sixth (no shot glass at frat parties). I wish that they had real education on how alcohol works in high school (also impact of not eating while drinking).</p>
<p>Also IMHO, if he does not live at home, be advised that if he goes to an “almost dry” school, there will be a lot of temptation to go off-campus to drink (yes, even at conservative colleges). And to me, getting drunk on-campus is a heck of a lot safer than getting drunk in downtown wherever.</p>
<p>glopop, He’s concerned about both human poverty and animal suffering. Thanks for suggesting DS, it certainly would solve the partying issue! He would probably love the atmosphere, but he would not be able to tolerate the animal thing. He doesn’t believe in using animals for food (except for milk and eggs, and he won’t eat eggs because he knows how chickens are mistreated). He wouldn’t have a chance of admission, anyway.</p>
<p>PiccoloMom, thanks for the Emory suggestion. It does sound like a good possibility, and I think it could fit somewhere on the list (not sure if it would be a match or a reach). Your sentence, “She eliminated schools with large greek scenes, Division I sports, and dull towns where there wasn’t anything to do but party on weekends,” is a good starting point. I knew that it would be best to avoid fraternities, but I hadn’t thought of avoiding D1 sports or dull towns. Makes sense.</p>
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<p>Not to mention that unless he started school late and/or had issues which extended his undergrad tenure*, we wouldn’t have overlapped at all judging by his birthdate and what I know of Eastern European classmates at Stuyvesant. </p>
<p>He actually likely attended and graduated Oberlin BEFORE the mid-'90s. </p>
<p>Interesting you found someone who also attended the same HS as I did. As for alcoholism at Stuy, there was a druggie/alcohol slacker group I knew of…but didn’t associate with during my time there. </p>
<p>Not surprising considering I didn’t find drugs/alcohol to be appealing after seeing what it did to people and its effects on my old NYC neighborhood.</p>
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<li>Very unlikely if he managed to survive 4 years at Stuy before going to Oberlin as a drinker on road to alcoholism according to your impressions of his memoir.<br></li>
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<p>Harvestmoon - From what I’ve inferred, the OP’s son would not fit in very well at Pepperdine, given its conservative, religious character.</p>
<p>Gary Shteyngart is Oberlin class of 1995 (just googled it). </p>
<p>This is a long thread, and so I just want to reiterate that New College of Florida sounds like an excellent fit, also.</p>
<p>I just finished reading the Hobart article and was equally disturbed. I thought of Davidson College (NC) for your son. My son graduated in 2011 and he was extremely busy there with sports and academics.Students there are very serious and very accepting. Not much of that culture there and its very small and challenging. Although he was a jazz musician, he could not do athletics and music together. But since then, the music performance requirements have relaxed and the courses have been made available to more students. My son was a smart kid when he arrived there. When he left, he was a mature, well read, thoughtful and socially responsible adult. Quite a transformation. Good luck !</p>