<p>Pete, your reasons for wanting to go straight to B school will not be seen as a good one by the schools. Frankly, unless you have done remarkably at a very top college and your new business flies fast, you have little chance of seeing a classroom at a top 10 program without working a few years. And it's no longer just 2 years for most so you really need to decide if this works for you or redirect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky and cbreeze, these examples you give of people who aren't anything special and still got in immediately after undergrad
[/quote]
OK, Pete , I give up, when you get into HBS after your undergrad, let us know. Good luck.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Allright, the pain in the ass of the (electronic) resume book is that it won't let me cut and paste. I have to retype the resume.</p>
<p>But anyway, here is the education section for one particular HBS student who came straight from undergrad. I am including only the pertinent academic information to maintain privacy.</p>
<p>Education: University of California, Berkeley CA
Bachelor of Arts degree, cum laude, in Sociology. Awarded Chancellors Scholarship.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sakky, that was NOT a true resume. Suffice to say you know it and I know it. Detail differences from my resumes are striking. Not even Phi Beta Kappa? No other honors ? No extra-curriculars mentioned? Work of an amateur. </p>
<p>Note the GPAs of the following :</p>
<p>
[quote]
JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY Baltimore, MD
Master of Science in Electrical Engineering
Bachelor of Science – Major: Electrical and Computer Engineering
· Beneficial Hodson Trust Scholar - Awarded 4-year merit tuition scholarship.
· Recipient of William Huggins Award for outstanding achievement and service to the Engineering School.
· Founder and President – HKN (National Electrical Engineering Honor Society), Johns Hopkins.
· GPA 3.99/4.00, Departmental and General Honors. Graduated top 2% of class.
EXPERIENCE
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
WHEATON COLLEGE Wheaton, IL
Bachelor of Arts, Business Economics
· Graduated Cum Laude, 3.9/4.0 GPA, while working 30 hours per week to finance 75% of degree
· Volunteer tutor for inmate higher education program in Cook County prison system
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
McGILL UNIVERSITY Montreal, Canada
B.A. European History (First Class Honors)
· 3.9 GPA; 770 GMAT; Dean’s Honor List; James McGill Academic Achievement Award; Golden Key Honor Society
· Twice elected Students Society VP by 17,000 students: a full-time position responsible for 12 staff and a budget of $2MM
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
THE WHARTON SCHOOL and SCHOOL OF ARTS AND SCIENCES, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA
Bachelor of Science in Economics: Concentrations in Management and Global Analysis
Bachelor of Arts: Major in International Political Economy
· Cumulative GPA: 3.9/4.0, Phi Beta Kappa, USA Today 2002 All-USA College Academic Team
[/quote]
</p>
<p>One more from your beloved MIT...</p>
<p>
[quote]
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE of TECHNOLOGY Cambridge, MA
Bachelor of Science, Mechanical Engineering with concentration in Japanese<br>
· Tau Beta Pi and Pi Tau Sigma Engineering Honors Society Inductee. GPA 4.9 out of 5.0
· Elected President of Theta Delta Chi fraternity
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Even though this is an online forum. Those stats seem credible.</p>
<p>"Pete, your reasons for wanting to go straight to B school will not be seen as a good one by the schools. Frankly, unless you have done remarkably at a very top college and your new business flies fast, you have little chance of seeing a classroom at a top 10 program without working a few years. And it's no longer just 2 years for most so you really need to decide if this works for you or redirect."</p>
<p>What are good reasons then? So far all I have is that I think it's the best way to supplement the experience that I am hoping to have (which if things go well will be very good experience) without having to start a FT career then take a break. Please give examples of reasons that they would see as better ones than mine....</p>
<p>"OK, Pete , I give up, when you get into HBS after your undergrad, let us know. Good luck."</p>
<p>cbreeze, what do you mean you give up? I haven't disagreed with you. I was simply asking why those people got in.</p>
<p>I don't know what your problem is but not once have I implied that I am going to get in. I was purely asking advice on how to maximise my chances. Now the examples you have given in your last post I can understand. They do seem very good.</p>
<p>On another issue, is Wharton equally difficult for people to get into straight from undergrad? or would you say more difficult? I read somewhere on here that they are less welcoming of people joining straight after undergrad than HBS, but have seen nothing to back that up. Anyknow know?</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>"What are good reasons then? So far all I have is that I think it's the best way to supplement the experience that I am hoping to have (which if things go well will be very good experience) without having to start a FT career then take a break. Please give examples of reasons that they would see as better ones than mine...."</p>
<p>You don't know <em>your</em> reasons to go now? You don't know and you expect strangers to argue your case and tell you the reasons why <em>you</em> should get an MBA now? I hope you realize the futility of this.</p>
<p>"I was simply asking why those people got in."</p>
<p>I also hope you realize that chances are the people who got in don't even know; so it follows that no one here knows. No one here works on HBS' admissions committee. Most people here won't have a clue, except what they read somewhere (in which case, ask them to recommend you the books) or what they were told (in which case, ask by who and when). You have to evaluate the sources. I hope you realize this. </p>
<p>"I was purely asking advice on how to maximise my chances."</p>
<p>Again, to whom were you asking? You have to realize that most people here 1) don't go/have gone/have any connection to HBS; and 2) most people on this forum are in favor of working before getting an MBA (not sure why [except perhaps herd thinking], but that's what they seem to believe).</p>
<p>The advice they (or anyone else) can give you is pretty "common-sense," but here you go: </p>
<p>a) have excellent grades;
b) ace the GMAT;
c) get excellent recommendations;
d) write excellent essays (which show why you are ready for an MBA now; you have to persuade admissions); e) either do something remarkable and entrepreneurial (ie be successful) or get top internships like top investment banks or MBB consulting.</p>
<p>Also, HBS and Wharton have VERY different cultures. Some people at HBS would be miserable at Wharton, and vice-versa.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Also, Pete, I hope you realize the Cbreeze was not giving you data--she was using that data to argue with Sakky, which is a different matter entirely. You see, this forum is cathartic for some of us. :)</p>
<p>"I would believe you, if you provided some actual proof that you actually have some knowledge about HBS."</p>
<p>Well, now that I am willing to discuss a few things, I am waiting on you...</p>
<p>Can we talk about Shad's layout perhaps? I went there daily. But if you are a Phd student or a recruiter (or just an MIT student), I doubt you could go/did go.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The biggest issue in going to B school straight from undergrad is that employers will be much less interested in you . . . I can tell you you would be a hard sell for elite jobs with just summer work experience.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think this is the single biggest reason to consider working before going to a graduate business program, regardless of whether the program will admit you. My experience hiring MBA candidates has been similar.</p>
<p>"You don't know <em>your</em> reasons to go now? You don't know and you expect strangers to argue your case and tell you the reasons why <em>you</em> should get an MBA now? I hope you realize the futility of this."</p>
<p>Wildflower - You just quoted me on my reasons to want to go after undergrad. I'm just trying to get an idea of how well my reasons (that I already have, and you'd realise if you read it properly) fit in with those of other successful candidates.</p>
<p>Also, its not an MBA <em>now</em>, it'll be in three years time, so there really is a lot of time to consider this properly.</p>
<p>Thanks for the rest of your post. I wasn't really aware of how different the cultures are. Just that one is much more finance focused than the other.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Pete, I hope you realize the Cbreeze was not giving you data
[/quote]
That is also false. I was giving data to both Sakky and Pete. One had mentioned that candidates for MBA were "nothing special" and another insisted that they don't possess high GPAs.</p>
<p>Pete, for your question about Wharton, their graduate program actually has a 5 year MBA BSc degree program for their own undergrad students. They apply during their junior year. Needless to say, it is a very competitive process; every year they take less than 10 students, more like 2-8 over the years.</p>
<p>"That is also false. I was giving data to both Sakky and Pete."</p>
<p>Ok. Pete, she was giving you data. Though it seemed to me she was primarily arguing with Sakky. :)</p>
<p>"Pete, for your question about Wharton, their graduate program actually has a 5 year MBA BSc degree program for their own undergrad students. They apply during their junior year. Needless to say, it is a very competitive process; every year they take less than 10 students, more like 2-8 over the years."</p>
<p>Like Cbreeze said, submatriculation at Penn is very competitive (even for Wharton undergrads) and only for their undergrads. Since you don't go to Penn, I would certainly not transfer just to try to take advantage of the submatriculation path.</p>
<p>I would stick to HBS, Stanford and Chicago: top schools with defined early career initiatives. Yale might also be worth checking into, esp. if you are interested in non-profit/save-the-world stuff. You can also apply to Wharton, just be ready to argue your case (tip: you may have better luck if you apply to their MA/MBA program...the name escapes me right now. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>NB - I was going to give you the link to a website called "Young MBA" for people interested in applying directly from undergrad--it's sort of a blog by MBA students who got in directly from college, including a couple kids from Wharton. Unfortunately, it seems that young MBAs don't know how to keep a website going (maybe this should be a sign for you). :) The url is no longer active. In any case, here it is in case they get it going again: [url=<a href="http://www.youngmba.net/%5Dwww.youngmba.net%5B/url">http://www.youngmba.net/]www.youngmba.net[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Funny you should bring that up. A transfer to wharton was on my mind actually, though it's too late for me to get started for transfer to sophomore, and would have to be after 2 years at my current college then a transfer to junior year, which as I understand it is even harder than transferring to sophomore.</p>
<p>Actually now that you mention it, I've been thinking for the last month or so that if I could luckily get a transfer to junior year at wharton I probably wouldn't even do an MBA, certainly not straight away, as the wharton degree will have a lot more business/finance focus than my current degree.</p>
<p>Also, again if I somehow did manage to transfer to wharton, doing the MBA BSc program would probably mean a greatly increased workload for Senior year, as you study for you first year of the MBA during your senior year of undergrad, and that would not be a very attractive option if I want to keep up ECs and WE etc.</p>
<p>I didn't bother mentioning it because this is an MBA forum and transferring (straight to junior year and from another country) is difficult, but transferring to wharton and completing a BS there without the MBA would be my favourite option. But as if it wasn't hard enough, my high school transcript would not do me any favours at all (although my college grades are and will continue to be excellent).</p>
<p>Anyway thanks for the incredibly useful information, and that website seems interesting if it does work. :)</p>
<p>Out of interest do you know as much about potentially transferring to junior year of wharton (or other top US schools) ?</p>
<p>Wharton is probably the hardest undergrad school in the US to transfer into. I can only remember a couple while I was there who came from outside of Penn. Your only chance is if you've been in a similar program that covers the material current students took in their first 2 years which generally means you're coming from a very similar program.</p>
<p>As for reasons schools will accept, there's just one....that you have phenomenal work experience already, age and maturity to put you on par with the cohort.</p>
<p>look into the HBS 2+2 program and Yale's Silver Scholars program. They're both 2 MBA programs made just for fresh college grads who want to get an MBA right away.</p>