How to get your kid to graduate within 4 years

Parents Forum
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<p>Usually, the kind of colleges I’m talking about either don’t give AP credit at all or require you to take a more advanced class in the subject area and earn at least a B to get credit for them. You can graduate early if you do that, but you can’t avoid taking, e.g., any math or science courses at all, by using AP scores. </p>

<p>Personally, I don’t view these colleges as “factories.” Quite the contrary. I view the colleges that let students borrow money to take a couple of courses each semester without making sure they are on board to get a degree as the “factories.” (Sometimes, the primary reason the “kids” are taking classes is so they can avoid having to start paying back their loans.) </p>

<p>BTW, tuition usually is based on a semester at these schools rather than by # of course credits. If you want to take extra classes, you can–for no additional cost. Of course, you have to take them at the same time as your other classes. Usually at least a quarter of each class takes more than the minimum # required. Since most kids take a lot of core/gen ed/distribution requirements the first two years, switching majors is rarely a problem. Switching into engineering is probably the most common exception–but that’s pretty rare.</p>

<p>Again, if the goal is to make sure the kid gets a diploma in 4 years, then I think it’s entirely reasonable to force kids to be very close to half way there after 2. That’s what these schools do. I applaud them. YMMV.</p>

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I agree. Some engineering majors, especially if done with certain minors, can also be difficult to get completed within 4 years due to the sequential nature of some of the courses.</p>

<p>I also agree about the summers - that’s just adding time (and cost) within the 4 years to become a virtual 4.5 or 5 years. It does, however, still have the advantage of getting the person out in, for example, 4 calendar years which allows the person to enter the workplace at that time and thus not have the extra year (or whatever) of lost income.</p>

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<p>Personally, I think it’s more important that the students are fairly certain after 2 years that the major they chose is the one the want their degree in AND are nearly 1/2 way there. There are a lot of kids who really aren’t SURE that their major is the “right one.” Some may indeed get a degree after 4 years, only to go back to school to get another because it turned out that it wasn’t something they actually enjoyed and/or couldn’t get a job in the field and/or didn’t like actually working in the field.</p>

<p>It makes you wonder what the point of getting a degree in 4 years is–to me, it is so you can get a job in the field or go to grad school so you can get a job in the field. Getting a degree & then working in food service or retail with minimum wage doesn’t seem to accomplish a great deal.</p>

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<p>jonri:</p>

<p>I was a little harsh in my ‘factory’ characterization but what I meant is a lack of flexibility. I realize they have some flexibility but they nevertheless go out of their way to limit the person to 4 years which in turn limits their options which is why I say it’s not necessarily a good attribute. Sure, some ‘kids’ will be somewhat directionless or irresponsible in the way they take courses when they’re given the kind of flexibility many state colleges permit but there are many others who use that flexibility to their advantage in switching majors, taking a difficult minor, or just taking some additional courses that they find interesting - courses that would be too much to take within a 4 year time constraint (and possibly unaffordable at a private).</p>

<p>Himom - That’s what I was trying to get at in my points on the time constraints and why limiting it isn’t always a good thing.</p>

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<p>In engineering, you can change your major during your first year and have a good chance of completing your degree in 4 years. Changing it anytime later and you’re looking at 5-6 years. My first son went from Electrical to Bioengineering in the middle of his second year and went 5 years. There are some major changes you can make with little effect. Our youngest went from Pre-med (1st yr), to Biochemistry (2nd yr), to Physical Chemistry (3rd year), with no delays. It worked out that the building blocks fit each major. So if your student is uncertain, suggest they go the most difficult/restrictive major as complementary majors will likely not suffer. I also changed majors when I went to college. I was able to complete my degree in 4 years by taking one summer session.</p>

<p>Our youngest was also aware of the cost. He’s going to a private college and was able to get scholarships and grants that covered half the cost, making it equivalent to going to a public out of state school, cost-wise. In-state public would have been cheaper, but the options weren’t great. With his cost awareness, he took 18-20 credits most semesters. We cautioned him about it, but he wanted to get his money’s worth. </p>

<p>It also helps if their college supports completing a degree in 4 years. One of the first things mentioned at the orientation for our youngest was the administration’s awareness about the cost. They made it their goal to have the majority of students graduate in 4 years. For example, there was one class where majors weren’t able to get in (class filled by higher level non-major students). Missing the class would have possibly delayed students from completing a series, so they added another class to meet the demand. Compare that to some of the larger schools where it’s easier for students to get lost and end up going for 5-6 years.</p>

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<p>At the risk of being a helicopter mom, I have emphasized to my DD to understand the registration procedures. If it opens at 7 AM, you have your schedule worked out well BEFORE that, meet with adviser if necessary and be on computer at 6:55. Do you best to cut down on closed out classes. Concentrate on getting into sequential classes. If you need calculus before intermediate economics, get into calculus and take a second choice for some gen ed stuff.</p>

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<p>Appropriate to the topic, just today Dartmouth announced that beginning with the class of 2018 it will no longer accept any AP or IB credits, thus taking away that strategic tool to help ensure finishing on time. The school says this is to discourage students from finishing early (they want 4 full years of tuition money coming in), and also that they do not consider the AP courses to be on par with their college courses.</p>

<p>[TheDartmouth.com:</a> Registrar to restrict AP, IB credits](<a href=“http://thedartmouth.com/2013/01/09/news/credits]TheDartmouth.com:”>http://thedartmouth.com/2013/01/09/news/credits)</p>

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<p>Our son had about a year of dual-enrollment courses, mainly at universities though a few were at a community college. He graduated in 3.5 years. He could have graduated in 3 years but he took some additional graduate classes in the extra semester.</p>

<p>I also did most of the planning to keep things on track. I took the degree requirements and put them on a web page in a matrix with the semester going down the side and the courses going horizontally. I filled in the requirements along with suggestions on what to take when. Of course the suggestions were only guesses because we didn’t know what would be offered in any particular semester. I also looked for courses that could meet multiple requirements. His school had a many courses that could meet two GED requirements. There were some courses that could meet three requirements and those helped.</p>

<p>It helps to make a dependency graph for the major. In some majors, you have to take courses at certain times with little wiggle-room if you want to do a particular project sequence in your senior year because of course prerequisites. The dependency graph will show you the spots where scheduling is very tight and provide parameters for when you need to finish courses by.</p>

<p>If the school has a “what-if” graduation program, use it. This program will typically show you your current progress in meeting your degree requirements and allow you to plug in courses (before you take them) to see how they would affect your progress.</p>

<p>Keep an eye on announcements from the department, your adviser and the school. Sometimes students don’t keep a close eye on the blizzard of emails that they can get on school-related stuff. At my son’s school, there’s typically one or two students per year that don’t graduate with their class because they don’t fill out the graduation paperwork on time. This doesn’t really cost them anything as they can just graduate the following year but it might look funny on a resume. This is one of those helicopter parenting things.</p>

<p>Some schools have great advising and they have the staff to provide the individual attention to do a lot of the above. Other schools are sink-or-swim with advisers stretched among a large number of students. If your student is in the latter, then it’s their responsibility to take care of the advising stuff. Or the parent can help out if they are familiar with the overall process.</p>

<p>Our son got the textbooks one to three months before classes started. For many courses, he started reading and/or doing the exercises well in advance. He also used course videos from similar courses at other universities. I feel that this contributed to his near-perfect grades and that helped to get him done on time. Failing a few courses can result in an extra semester or summer sessions.</p>

<p>Son had a part-time on-campus job. This provided his spending money and required him to manage his time efficiently. It was the kind of job where you could study if there was nobody coming in the door asking for help.</p>

<p>It’s also important to jump on the course registration system when it opens. At our son’s school, registration opens by seniority, staggered by the ranges of credit completed (roughly corresponding to the number of semesters). It’s pretty bad to be frozen out of a course needed to graduate on-time because of waiting for a day or two to register.</p>

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<p>I don’t see how having a major that requires 128 hours to graduate requires more then 8 semesters. My S2’s requires 128, mechanical engineering. He is required to take a minimum of 15 credits/semester. The suggested curriculum is laid out between 15-18 credits/semester. His have been between 16-17. Certainly not easy, but he’s doing fine (3.4), about to start his 4th semester. His university has a very high graduation rate (86% @ 4yrs, 94% @ 6yrs). The university holds it’s students to 8 semesters to graduate with few exceptions (I couldn’t tell you what those exceptions are), but the expectation is to proceed each year towards a degree and finish on time. I know there are specific classes my son must have each year to proceed. If he can’t get those classes (they are full or conflict with another required e’school course) another section will be made. I feel the university is making an concerted effort, and their goal is also that he have the opportunity to complete his degree in four years.</p>

<p>This sometimes means he has a schedule that is inconvenient. Last semester Tues/Thurs he started class at 8am and ended with labs at 9pm. Guess what? You’re a full time student and that’s what you’re there to do. I hope all semesters aren’t like that, but if that’s what it takes to get your classes you have to be flexible. This also may mean you don’t get to take the first choice humanities elective you wanted. Hopefully you can get an override the first week of class, however register for another option because putting it off (ie taking 15 instead of 18 credits…just not taking the class that semester) and possibly needing a summer term because you wanted to take astronomy instead of economics isn’t going to fly.</p>

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<p>Not all schools do this, sometimes for budgetary reasons, which can make it difficult for many students to graduate in four years.</p>

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<p>^ I completely appreciate this BCE. I was mentioning that his did for certain classes. My point was in ‘something to look for’. If he’d chosen another school we would have accepted that his choice offered what they did and worked as well as we could within the confines of their system, asking our son to do his best to get classes, etc.</p>

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<p>My D1 went to San Diego State. The California schools often get a bad rap for it being impossible to get out in 4 years, but she got out in 4 years, no summer school (could have graduated a semester early if she wanted to, but was having fun so stayed for the full 4 years), with minimal AP credit (only passed AP Lit and AP Econ), despite changing her major 3 times and having major back surgery her sophomore year. We mapped out what was required for all possible majors and got an idea of what overlapped, and ran the “degree progress report” regularly to make sure she was on track. My son is at UCLA and is on track to graduate on-time (if not early). He changed his major, but it is just a matter of realizing the requirements and planning accordingly. Also you sometimes have to be willing to take a class at 8am, or on Fridays.</p>

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<p>tx5athome–after first semester freshman year I was able to get classes that started at 9:30 or later. I am NOT a morning person :D. We were on a 6 day cycle so you couldn’t plan for Friday off anyway. It took me 4 1/2 years but I knew that going into it because of the large number of classes for my major.</p>

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<p>I thinking picking the right school from the start is important. It seems everyone I know personally that took more than four years, did so because they transferred and lost credits, or took a semester off for health reasons. I didn’t realize that taking more than four years had become so common.</p>

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<p>Aren’t most nursing programs set up as 4 year programs? True, there are NO electives, and absolutely no room for any extra courses. And if you don’t know on day one that nursing is for you, extra time is in the cards. </p>

<p>And yes, summer school won’t save much if the courses are full pay. Not all schools will accept transfer credits from summer classes at a cc. So that strategy has to be researched carefully before enrolling.</p>

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<p>Thanks, everybody! Has anybody used any of these new online course options such as Straighter Line to catch up or make up for missed courses and so keep to a 4-year schedule? Thanks, K.</p>

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<p>That’s a nice goal. But there are precious few resources to help students pick the right major. Sometimes it is not until they take a number of actual college courses that they know a major is not a good fit. Sad but true.</p>

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<p>I did not read the entire thread. My daughter is a senior and will graduate in April. She started with AP credits, took classes two summers (one a language program and the other an engineering class for fun), and she changed her major, but not to something extremely different. She will graduate with about 150 credits in four years.</p>

<p>Her brother, on the other hand, is a freshman and has already changed majors and we are planning for at least one extra semester. However, his university does a four-year plan for the kids freshman year. He will also take one class during summer school at the community college.</p>

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<p>Find a state flagship university that has no students in remedial courses.</p>

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<p>Some schools set up the registration system to allow department to set priorities other than class standing, such as being a declared major for upper level required courses in that major. For lower level prerequisites to declare the major, they may also reverse the priority by giving undeclared sophomores and freshmen priority over juniors and seniors declared in other majors.</p>