<p>oops. ‘higher’ should have been ‘hire’</p>
<p>What flagship school is that?</p>
<p>He is now in his second year of engineering and struggling to maintain a 2.5 GPA. Unfortunately he can’t think of anything he would rather do, although he is not particularly enamored with engineering. I don’t know what to tell him. By the way, he got a 34 in Math on his ACT, as well as a 33 in Science. I don’t know if that is an indicator of success after all.</p>
<p>You can graduate with a 2.5. (And get a very successful job).</p>
<p>bigtrees, are you talking about yourself ?</p>
<p>If so, I am curious if you think this happened because you landed in a job that happily did not require of you competency in areas you were poor at, or because difficult class material is not in general germane to the practice of engineering. I know this is a ymmv question, and the two possibilities in fact overlap, but any insight would be very interesting.</p>
<p>I graduated with honors, >3.5. So no, I’m not talking about myself.</p>
<p>But when I look around at my coworkers, I realize that we have employees from all walks of life. We have some who graduated with honors. We have some who barely made it. We have some who went to Stanford and MIT. We have some who went to community colleges.</p>
<p>In college, I thought that unless you had a tippy-top GPA, you were doomed. Now as an adult in the working field, I realize that you can still be a successful and productive engineer even with a low GPA.</p>
<p>I don’t recommend low GPAs. But I wouldn’t discourage someone from pursuing a field just because they have a low GPA after 2 years. I still think a 2.5 GPA in engineering will lead to more job opportunities that a 4.0 in Philosophy (as a terminal degree) (with apologies to philosophy graduates).</p>
<p>I’m joining this bandwagon! I have a D who is struggling with the same issues. gamerbach, my D is the same way, she just can’t think of anything she would rather do. She also did very well on her ACT’s scoring very close to your S’s.</p>
<p>She goes to all her classes, does all the homework, studies all the time, does the practice tests and still bombs the exams. I think that she does have test anxiety in fact she completely bombed a physics final because she “freaked out” in the exam room. She was told that they would have a equation sheet for the exam, the first problem need an equation that was not on the sheet and she could not remember the equation. Spent half of the test on the first problem, knew it was wrong and couldn’t get to the answer. The second question used the answer from the first question. This from someone who got an high B on the first test and is doing very well on the homework and the quizzes. Her father and I don’t know what to do. She did well her first year of engineering and is bombing the second. She has a 2.87 GPA and wanted to apply for an internship but cannot find anyone to give her a reference so she is going to come home and take classes and try to find some sort of job.</p>
<p>I have two children both in engineering. One is at a selective school and one is at a tier 3 school. Both children went to the same HS and had the same classes and education. Our D outperformed our S in every aspect in HS. ACT’s were higher, AP score’s were higher, our D graduated in the top 12% of her class, our S in the top 40%.</p>
<p>Their college experience could not have been more different. S is at the top of his class. He has been in Honor Societies his whole college career and has several leadership positions. D can barely keep up with her classes and has very few EC’s as she is just trying to keep her head above water. </p>
<p>This is what my D thinks and I think it may have some validation. At my S’s school, kids did not have the same amount of AP classes, the ACT scores were much lower than my D’s school. My S found that he was very prepared for school and his first year was very similar to his HS. My D found that all of her classmates were as prepared/more prepared as her. She feels that the curve for her classes is much higher than the curve would be at a less selective school. For instance, her math classes are not curved. My S’s were always curved. She was taking a math class this semester (statistics) and the class average was a 68. One quarter of the class got below a 60. The professor told them that he was not going to curve the class and if they didn’t think they could get a high grade on the second test they should drop it. She dropped it, I still don’t know if that was the right answer because I can’t believe he would fail half the class. But maybe he go enough to drop that he will not have to deal with it. BTW she scored the class average on the first test.</p>
<p>I wish I knew what to do for her. She is a mess all of the time. I think that she would like to transfer but she signed a lease for next year and where would she go? With a GPA that low, her transfer choices are very limited. We are very middle class and it is all we can do to afford 4 years of college. If she would transfer she would probably have another year of school. And she does like the school and has friends. Would things be any better at another school or would she struggle like she is. Is it better to stay and get a middling GPA? Transferring within her university is really not an option either. We are on FA and it is only for 8 semesters and we could not afford for her to spend another year there. </p>
<p>I really feel for her, she feels there is no way out of where she is right now. araba, (i think that is the right name, sorry if it’s not). My H gave her the same advice last night. As soon as she gets a thermo test back (that she thinks she bombed) she is going to the professor or TA with the same questions. She’s also going to fax it to her dad and he said he would look at it but it’s been 20+ since he’s had thermo and is not sure how much he remembers. Apparently the professor is 80+ and has Alzheimer’s so we will see if he can help.</p>
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<p>Certainly there is someone who can be a reference. An advisor. The resident advisor on the floor she lived freshman year. The administrative assistant at the front desk of the buiding. A high school teacher. A roommate.</p>
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<p>This is where good test taking skills comes into play. When I ran into this, I wrote on the test “I will pretend the answer to the first question is xxx and am solving the second question using this value. Please give partial credit if possible.” Yes, I actually wrote that on my exams. It worked.</p>
<p>2.87 is not a low GPA for engineering. It is a GPA to be proud of. </p>
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<p>Statistics isn’t hard but requires a lot of time and patience to figure it out. I wouldn’t have dropped it and taken the chance that I’d pass the class. </p>
<p>There is a certain amount of overwhelmed feeling that comes from engineering classes. You feel like you will never learn it. You feel like it is impossible. You feel like a total failure. Then all of a sudden, the fog lifts and you can solve the problems and figure things out. Bailing on classes too early is not a wise thing to do.</p>
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<p>What you need to do is tell her that you are proud of her, that as long as she is making progress toward graduation she is doing well in engineering, and that she is doing well at college. </p>
<p>It sounds like to me that your D wants to maintain the high GPA that she had in high school. She may feel like a failure if she gets a C in a class. But Cs get degrees, and she should be pleased with every grade she gets.</p>
<p>I think she has a certain amount of anxiety about grades and perhaps some self-esteem problems (like nobody will give her a reference when probably I can go to campus and find a dozen people who will be a reference) as well.</p>
<p>bigtrees, ding, ding ding, I think we have a winner here. Re: the references, it stated that they be professional references which she thought meant professor’s. I will talk to her again about this.</p>
<p>I do think she is having self esteem problems. Not to be biased but engineering can be a big macho thing. It has been male driven for a long time and in some aspects continues to be. I think its very hard for my girly girl to get that she doesn’t have to be the best and brightest but still be an accomplished engineer. </p>
<p>Re: the overwhelmed feeling. She is definitely feeling that. Her brother called her and told her that every engineering student feels that way. Every engineering student wonders if they’ve made the wrong choice. Engineering is not a nurturing major lol.</p>
<p>Great advice about the physics exam. I will pass it on to her. She did say that her TA said that when they wrote the exam they expected a C- average but the average was a B+. And she failed it. Added to her anxiety.</p>
<p>Deb, there is no question in my mind that your D has what it takes to complete her degree in engineering. My question is , “why?”</p>
<p>Surely your D can find another major at her college which will take advantage of the things she’s good at without putting her through the agony she’s going through right now. Economics? Quantitative Finance? Political Science? Linguistics? </p>
<p>Bigtrees is right- she should be proud of her GPA and of her survival skills thus far. But if she’s feeling demoralized and ground down, perhaps that’s a sign that engineering is not for her. There are plenty of happy and productive adults out there who started their college careers in engineering who ended up doing something else. This isn’t the Bataan Death March- this is her college career, and there should be some pleasure and excitement involved in all the neat stuff she’s learning and the great people she’s meeting and the cool activities she’s participating in.</p>
<p>I know a kid who had a similar GPA to your D, was told by everyone to drop engineering but he refused. He’s now in med school, doing great, loving every minute of it, and happy with his decision to have stuck with engineering even though it meant he had to drop down a few tiers in med school apps due to his GPA. But he loved undergrad. He was a volunteer paramedic with the local fire department, then a paid paramedic; he was a leader in a major campus organization, he had a social life and participated in some interesting activities. His parents told him that they could afford zero for med school so that anything after 8 semesters of undergrad (with need aid) would be on him and he took it seriously. But he loved his studies.</p>
<p>I think if your D is running out of steam it’s time for a mid-course correction. If she’s not loving it, what’s the point?</p>
<p>There’s also a reality that some people make enormously better hands-on engineers than school engineers (and vice-versa). I have a nephew who has never done fabulously in schools – mostly Cs and Bs, but give that kid any kind of a real problem to solve, and it will get fixed. Well. I think that when he goes out and goes to work that he’ll soon be a highly valued employee. A few engineering schools emphasize more hands-on and project oriented work, but I think that they’re much less common than the traditional programs. (I am thinking that Rose Hulman is often mentioned as one of these schools.)</p>
<p>My assumption is that she likes science and math and wants to be an engineer for the right reasons.</p>
<p>Real life engineering is a ton different than school engineering, and I wouldn’t worry much about work right now. It’s getting the degree that is important.</p>
<p>blossom, we have talked about the same thing and she keeps coming back to that she really still wants to be an engineer. She’s wanted to be an engineer since the 4th grade. Did Odyssey of the Mind and loved the problem solving and loved math and science. Has plenty of experience, her dad and brother are engineers, she did summer camps and job shadowing and really liked the work and doesn’t see herself in another profession. </p>
<p>We’ve talked about changing majors and changing schools. She did want to transfer to a more hands on and project based school, which is where both her dad and brother went/go. I don’t think it would be a great fit socially and ultimately decided to stay at her school. She has signed a lease for next year off campus and has a roommate. That’s one issue we are dealing with. She doesn’t think she can get out of the lease and what does she do about the roommate. Does she/us eat the rent and then pay again for another housing situation? Could she even get housing at a transfer school this late in the game.</p>
<p>Also if she left her present school, what could she do. The nearest university is 30 miles away and does not offer engineering. Do you leave one school after 2 years transfer to community college and then transfer to another university. I don’t even know if there are any classes that would transfer to another engineering college at the hometown u. </p>
<p>She needs to answer these questions herself and I told her if she wanted to transfer she needed to see what she could do about her living situation at her present school. It’s a big stumbling block right now.</p>
<p>Deb- no other majors at her current school which could fit? And what does her advisor say?</p>
<p>"However, no special dispensation will be given him because you are his mother, his allowance, skin color, religion, political views, or any other irrelevant excuse you generate.</p>
<p>The whiny conservative sending a kid to school on the public dime is SO off-putting. "</p>
<p>Did I miss something? where did THAT come from?</p>
<p>Her advisor says not to worry about her GPA. The problem with changing majors at the school she currently attend is monetary. She qualifies for need based aid and they only award it for 8 semesters. Changing majors I am sure would entail another year at the school and one we cannot afford. At 50,000/year it’s not not possible.</p>
<p>She should stick with engineering if it is what she loves. Next year things will be easier because she will be finished with the weed out classes and actually doing engineering classes (assuming she has completed calculus, physics, and statics/dynamics).</p>
<p>Wait a minute…she is taking thermodynamics this quarter? In addition to physics and statistics and who knows what else?</p>
<p>Thermodynamics was the very hardest class I had in college! I spend about 2-3 hours a night, 5 days a week working on it plus time on Sunday. The professor assigned typically 10 problems per week and each problem took 1-2 hours to solve. </p>
<p>She is taking on a huge workload this semster. No wonder she is tired.</p>
<p>bigtrees, thermo, physics 2, probability and statistics, and mechanics 2. That’s her schedule for this semester. Last semester she had 5 engineering classes. This seemed easier, last semester was a killer. She only has 4 engineering classes this semester.</p>
<p>Um, well, no wonder she’s struggling. She’s taking probably the hardest schedul she could be taking. Things might get easier when she’s through thermodynamics.</p>
<p>That’s a tough quarter/semester.</p>