<p>It is the most populous African country...</p>
<p>How about, stop seeing yourselves as seperate entities of America..</p>
<p>elaborate, please</p>
<p>This should be good....</p>
<p>i love african americans</p>
<p>lol..</p>
<p>Trackbabi, how can data be racist and insulting?</p>
<p>Data is data. Numbers are numbers, period.</p>
<p>The way data is collected, or the way data is presented can be racist or insulting to a race, which does not seem to be the case here.</p>
<p>Are you trying to say that the number of dropouts who are black are NOT double the number of dropouts who are white?</p>
<p>Some of the idiotic arguments on this board amuse me. Anybody taking bets on how long this thread will last before it gets locked/deleted?</p>
<p>did u know 1 out of every 5 ppl from africa are nigerians???? i guess because we nigerians are just so cool.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How about, stop seeing yourselves as seperate entities of America..
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I know! White America has always been so accommodating. </p>
<p>How about this deal? Black America will stop being "Black" once White Americans finally decide that approximately 200 years is enough time to brace themselves for a Black president.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How about this deal? Black America will stop being "Black" once White Americans finally decide that approximately 200 years is enough time to brace themselves for a Black president.
[/quote]
It's funny you should mention that - because many white americans like Obama because he does act white. He seems to have found the secret.</p>
<ol>
<li>Stop blaming white people for everything.</li>
<li>Stop believing every white person that can't see their view is racist.</li>
<li>Government use welfare in conjunction with some sort of job-training rather than some crutch.</li>
<li>AA it needs to stay even though it seems backwards. It keeps the closed-minded white people from denying rights to blacks. In time however I believe that AA can dissolve if done in the right way. When I say in time I mean at least a generation or two. Personally I don't see the need in college except to combat legacies.</li>
</ol>
<p>jrcho88, data is insulting when it tells a people that because of some numbers they are not likely to achieve success. Because I am(and many others too) proof that Black people do have the ability to achieve I do find it very insulting, and I also have the right to say so. And it's real funny that any time we try to talk about issues in our community, people want to shut it down. Change doesn't happen without discussion.</p>
<p>"It's funny you should mention that - because many white americans like Obama because he does act white. He seems to have found the secret."
I don't understand what you mean by "acting white"? Could you explain that term in your context?</p>
<p>Also I realized that what constantillusion said about not letting the media define who you are was kind of right. Black people should not make it an excuse that because rap artists said this, they do that or because tv showed this, they did that. People do need to learn to separate fiction and reality. There does need to be a stronger sense of leadership communities. I have many people protect and hide behind drug dealers who run the block because they believe they protect the neighborhood when really they are destroying it. I have no sympathy for drug dealers at all. In the meantime, the media needs to, of course, show Black people in a positive, more sophisticated light. Not show that we can all dance, sing and play sports which is kind of reminiscent of the ol' "Look massa' I can do a jig fo' ya" times ugh. </p>
<p>BET used to be of some value back in the day and needs some reform. If BET is taken away, people, then were will Black people be shown on tv. They're not put anywhere else.</p>
<p>I think acting white means achieving excellence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
jrcho88, data is insulting when it tells a people that because of some numbers they are not likely to achieve success.
[/quote]
Why is not achieving success insulting? It's a way of life. In fact, considering that success is a completely subjective term I could define it to mean having an income at the 99.99th percentile. Oops, now 99.99% of people aren't successful under my standard.</p>
<p>Point: Data is just facts. Humans decide if it's insulting or not.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Because I am(and many others too) proof that Black people do have the ability to achieve I do find it very insulting, and I also have the right to say so.
[/quote]
Ahhh, the personal anecdote. Totally worthless.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And it's real funny that any time we try to talk about issues in our community, people want to shut it down.
[/quote]
I'm failing to see the relevance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Change doesn't happen without discussion.
[/quote]
Change doesn't happen when they refuse to acknowledge data.</p>
<p>
[quote]
[quote]
"It's funny you should mention that - because many white americans like Obama because he does act white. He seems to have found the secret."
[/quote]
I don't understand what you mean by "acting white"? Could you explain that term in your context?
[/quote]
He doesn't do the things that mainstream America associates with black culture. He's never been in the prison system. He speaks extremely well. He has an elite educational pedigree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the media needs to, of course, show Black people in a positive, more sophisticated light. Not show that we can all dance, sing and play sports which is kind of reminiscent of the ol' "Look massa' I can do a jig fo' ya" times ugh.
[/quote]
I agree quite heavily with this statement. There is a total dearth of visible role models for black americans (and I think Obama is a great one).</p>
<p>However, the media has certainly been easily on the black community for massive problems. Huge levels of crime, huge levels of academic underachievement. People don't look at these issues because they are taboo. There needs to be a serious appraisal of the problems in the black community. And honestly, I'm not sure people are making enough issue with it.
[quote]
BET used to be of some value back in the day and needs some reform. If BET is taken away, people, then were will Black people be shown on tv. They're not put anywhere else.
[/quote]
This makes no sense. Did you leave out a word?</p>
<p>my take on the whole situation:</p>
<p>the problem with american society in general is that there is this overwhelming materialism and focus on economic gain consuming all ethnicities. for many, the main route to achieving this economic gain is through education. however for blacks it is a different story. faced with years of discrimination (from going to ****ty public schools to being treated differently within decent schools to being called "white" when one does succeed academically) black people are taught that education is not an easy path to take. therefore, they turn to easier ways of getting rich, the most visible either being making it big as a rap artist or being the star player of a professional sports team. in addition, the awards of education are not instant enough. in an instant gratification culture such as ours, many african americans view the cost of higher education (both the monetary and the time cost) as too high. it takes at least 4 years and a lot of money to get a degree. all that time spent on education could have been used to make money, instead (as many black people see it). and once again, sports and music are much quicker routes to riches than going to college.</p>
<p>so, that is the problem within the black community. however, there is also a problem within the larger society that contributes to black socioeconomic conditions in America: the media. now, many posters on here have cited BET as one of the immediate problems plaguing black america because of the way the channel portrays black people. however, the owners of BET are NOT black. BET is actually owned by Viacom. sure it's black rap artists putting out these music videos, but they are just displaying what they have been taught: that women mean nothing and money means everything (these teachings have routes in slavery). in addition, like most of the media, BET is just a small player in the systematic degredation of black people (especially males). there are numerous other sources, most notably the news.</p>
<p>also, i take extreme offense to Mr Payne's comment, and it makes me sad to know that his opinion is shared by many others. the fact that people think Barack Obama found the secret because he "acts white" is quite disheartening. since when did traits such as eloquence and/or not having committed a crime been inherent to the white race alone. it makes me so angry ever time i hear a reporter call Barack Obama "articulate." they all seem to say it with the same amount of masked shock as if it is uncommon for a black person to be articulate. these types of misconceptions are also plaguing the black community. </p>
<p>i have so much more to say, but i think that is enough for now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
also, i take extreme offense to Mr Payne's comment, and it makes me sad to know that his opinion is shared by many others.
[/quote]
The only opinion I stated was what mainstream America defines as "acting white". Now, I don't think having an elite educational pedigree or being well spoken is a prequisite for acting white, simply because most white people don't have any college degree or speak well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the fact that people think Barack Obama found the secret because he "acts white" is quite disheartening.
[/quote]
Ummm, are you serious? Him being an elite male is hugely enticing to the American populace. Perhaps why he has several orders of magnitude better chance to get elected as the American President than Al Sharpton.</p>
<p>
[quote]
since when did traits such as eloquence and/or not having committed a crime been inherent to the white race alone.
[/quote]
1) I'm sure BET and rap don't help in this matter, but to say they don't have any effect on the perception of black culture by whites is hilarious.</p>
<p>2) The violent crime rate in blacks is more than 5 times higher than that of whites. So yes, people tend to associate higher levels of crime with black culture. These dots are not hard to connect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it makes me so angry ever time i hear a reporter call Barack Obama "articulate." they all seem to say it with the same amount of masked shock as if it is uncommon for a black person to be articulate.
[/quote]
Perhaps they watch too much BET? Or MTV? Or Sports?</p>
<p>I think the issue is that it's more uncommon for blacks to be articulate when compared with whites.</p>
<p>Payne, when you cited one as TrackBabi's comments as being irrelevant i think she was referring to a comment by jrcho88 when he said the thread will be deleted. In fact I do not think the post was directed to you really, only the part about "acting white". The last phrase she had that you did not understand obviously had a typo. She meant "If BET is taken away, people(referring to all of us), then where(not "were") will Black people be shown on tv. They're not put anywhere else." She is saying that BET is one place that Black people can see themselves in the media.</p>
<p>And good points, hotpiece. I also don't like when people say successful black people are "acting white". It's not right to attribute Obama's success as "buddying up" to white people. And Sharpton could never be President because, though he is an important part of the community somewhat, he is too close-minded(in my opinion at least) and does not reach a wide audience. He is also to commercialized.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ummm, are you serious? Him being an elite male is hugely enticing to the American populace. Perhaps why he has several orders of magnitude better chance to get elected as the American President than Al Sharpton.
[/quote]
Mr Payne, i'm not commenting on the fact that people like Barack Obama, my commentary is directed to your saying that Barack Obama "acts white" (because in my opinion he doesn't, he simply acts like an educated black man)</p>
<p>
[quote]
but to say they don't have any effect on the perception of black culture by whites is hilarious
[/quote]
i never said that. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the issue is that it's more uncommon for blacks to be articulate when compared with whites.
[/quote]
you know this based on what? biased media portrayals of black people?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Payne, when you cited one as TrackBabi's comments as being irrelevant i think she was referring to a comment by jrcho88 when he said the thread will be deleted. In fact I do not think the post was directed to you really, only the part about "acting white".
[/quote]
Ok.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The last phrase she had that you did not understand obviously had a typo.
[/quote]
Ok.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She is saying that BET is one place that Black people can see themselves in the media.
[/quote]
Which is incorrect, but ok.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also don't like when people say successful black people are "acting white". It's not right to attribute Obama's success as "buddying up" to white people.
[/quote]
I mean, you do realize he was raised by his white grandparents, right?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Mr Payne, i'm not commenting on the fact that people like Barack Obama, my commentary is directed to your saying that Barack Obama "acts white" (because in my opinion he doesn't, he simply acts like an educated black man)
[/quote]
Yes, and it is perceived by the white American populace that he acts white (which is why he has significant support). Now, we could look at the demographics behind why white Americans have that perception (and there are numerous statistics to look at), but those reasons have already been elucidated fully within this thread.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you know this based on what? biased media portrayals of black people?
[/quote]
Based on a piles of statistics, media portrayal, and personal experience. Basically, how virtually every human being on the planet forms demographic opinions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, and it is perceived by the white American populace that he acts white (which is why he has significant support). Now, we could look at the demographics behind why white Americans have that perception (and there are numerous statistics to look at), but those reasons have already been elucidated fully within this thread.
[/quote]
okay, i'll try to explain this once more. i have no problem with the fact that white Americans like Barack Obama because they like the way he acts. they identify with him as they see themselves: educated, articulate, etc. my only issue is that this type of behavior is considered a uniquely "white" trait. which is, of course, an issue that society needs to deal with. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Based on a piles of statistics, media portrayal, and personal experience. Basically, how virtually every human being on the planet forms demographic opinions.
[/quote]
can you cite this statistical data? and as for media portrayals, i know the media to be biased, so i don't put much stock in it. and, as for your personal experience, mine has been just the opposite.</p>
<p>
[quote]
okay, i'll try to explain this once more. i have no problem with the fact that white Americans like Barack Obama because they like the way he acts. they identify with him as they see themselves: educated, articulate, etc. my only issue is that this type of behavior is considered a uniquely "white" trait. which is, of course, an issue that society needs to deal with.
[/quote]
No one views it as a uniquely white trait because, obviously, Obama is not white (for correctness, he is 50% white) - along with countless others. What people are looking at here are averages.</p>
<p>
[quote]
can you cite this statistical data?
[/quote]
What would you prefer? SAT Verbal scores? SAT Writing scores? Educational attainment statistics? Income statistics? All these things would correlate pretty decently to "articulateness".</p>