<p>^^^^ I actually prefer the US News book/online account to the MSAR, because they tell you the average stats of the students who actually make-up the freshman class at a particular med school, while MSAR only tells you the median of the accepted students (not students who actually enroll). IMO the U.S. New’s stats are a better indication of the caliber of students that a medical school usually has. </p>
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<p>^^^^ I actually don’t like Sdn, most of those people are really neurotic. Not only that, but there are so many posters on Sdn,you don’t really know whose advise to trust/listen to. On CC-Pre-Med Forum, its a lot more relaxed atmosphere, and there is a small group of veteran posters who you know you can ALWAYS trust (BDM, Norcalguy, shades, mmcdowe, curm, bluebayou, miamidap, eadad)—sorry if i forgot anyone else…</p>
<p>You people are really misguided if you think that your ACT scores could predict what you will get on the MCAT. This is one of the stupidest things I have heard in this forum.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who didnt do well on the ACT that end up attending medical school. You take the ACT when you are 16-18, at that age most kids don’t take the ACT seriously most of them will just take a practice test the night before. You can manage to do well if you know can do math and how to pace yourself.</p>
<p>Taking standardized tests is a skill. Some people are good at it, others aren’t. And like any skill there are some who have a natural talent and others who have to work ridiculously hard at it in order to master it. Amongst Kaplan instructors at the center I taught at, the common saying was “if you can ace one standardized test, you can ace them all”. </p>
<p>Absolutely there physicians out there who didn’t perform well on the ACT, and no one is saying that’s not true. Likewise a great ACT does not automatically translate into a good MCAT score, but the kids in high school who are pulling 32’s or 34’s on the ACT without an iota of preparation, they have a natural skill when it comes to test taking. Regardless of knowledge base, if you understand the ways in which testmakers work, you’ll outperform others who don’t understand those tactics.</p>
<p>Given that a +/- 2 range is generally accepted in the ACT to MCAT prediction, you’re talking about a 5 point range, which, depending on where your ACT score is, means you’re talking about a range of anywhere 8 percentile points (if you scored a 36 on the ACT the 34-38 range is the 91.7 to 99.1 percentiles) or 25 percentile points (ACT = 30, 28-32 is 63.1 to 88.4th percentile). The widest distribution in that 5 point range is centered around an ACT of 26, with MCAT percentile ranges from 38.6 to 69th. We’re not talking about a particularly precise representation here, just a rule of thumb, but I feel confident in a mere mathematical sense that two standardized tests with similar number scales and appropriate correlation of testing populations can predict a score within a 30.4 percentile range.</p>
<p>Actually, I don’t think you’ll find many people who didn’t do well on the ACT/SAT and still ended up in med school. I’m not saying everyone has to score a 35 on the ACT. But, I don’t think you’ll find many people in med school who scored a 23 on the ACT.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are plenty of people who did do well on the ACT and still can’t make it into med school.</p>
<p>I have no idea if the ACT/MCAT +/- 2 thing works but I think as a general rule, it’s not far off. My D fits within the range as do almost all her classmates at her UG that shared their scores. In fact, almost all her real practice test scores fit within that 5 point range. She just happened to score at the lower end of that range on the real thing. Different test date, maybe a different result, but it would likely still have been within the 5 point range.</p>
<p>I have a couple of outlier kids I can think of that bombed their first MCAT (from what I can only describe as equal parts naivete and hubris) and then annihilated it the second time.</p>
<p>For those of you who are excellent test-takers, don’t rely on that. Use it, but don’t rely on it. Put the time in.</p>
<p>* have a couple of outlier kids I can think of that bombed their first MCAT (from what I can only describe as equal parts naivete and hubris) and then annihilated it the second time.
*</p>
<p>If people want to take the MCAT as a “practice” and then later take it for “real,” when should they take it the first time? end of soph year?</p>
<p>You should never ever ever do this. It’s insane enough to do it for the SAT, where at least your score officially won’t count against you. But it’s truly dumb to do this for the MCAT, where it’s a very good way to hurt your chances for the next three years.</p>
<p>thanks for the props in #21, but in reality, I’m not even smart enough to be an arm-chair quarterback. I do am killer with Instant Replay, however. :D</p>
<p>But to the OP’s question, do any of the regulars have a comment on using the ‘Lizzy Score’, i.e., gpa * 10 + mcat, for makin’ up your list? (And perhaps, checking it twice?)</p>
<p>Yeah, I think it’s reasonable. In general you can also look at each of the components separately, since balance is important. A 4.0/27 is in worse shape than a 3.5/32.</p>
<p>blue, I’m a big LizzyM fan. I spent many, many hours just reading “her” past posts. I used the spreadsheet built by one of our own which used the LizzyM score in its calculations, sent it to my D and she used it (after researching individual schools) to make her list.</p>
<p>Didn’t realize it had been renamed. <wink>. Previously we (BDM, NCG, Shades, et al) had called it the “index” score. But yes, it’s helpful as a rule of thumb.</wink></p>
<p>^^^ For the lizzyM score do you use the median for the accepted students at a particular medical school or the average for the students who actually make-up a freshman class? </p>
<p>There are a couple of schools that I am interested in right now because of the specific programs that they offer, and I am trying to gauge what kind of mcat score I need to be competitive for that school, so I was just wondering. (I know its stupid to start looking into specific med. schools until you have an mcat score…)</p>
<p>NCG framed this well for me. Imagine that School X admits one hundred 30’s and one hundred and one 40’s, but only the 30’s actually attend. X’s median admits will look like 40. So if you were a 30, you’d look at that and be like “Whoa, I have no chance.” But really their entire class is made up of 30’s, so obviously a 30 has a good chance.</p>
<p>^^^^ Thanks that makes me feel a lot better, because I was a little scared looking at the MSAR. </p>
<p>Also if you are +/- 1 or 2 points within a school’s LizzyM score are you still competitive for that school number-wise (I know Ec’s are important too, but I am talking about strictly numbers here, to see if I can even consider a school) (I don’t know where I will stand EC wise in the next 1.5 years). Or do you have to be a certain amount of points higher than a school’s LizzyM score to be competitive number wise. How do you gauge whether a school is a reach, match based on LizzyM scores. I know no medical school should ever be considered a safety.</p>
<p>I know the lizzyM score can only be a rough approx, because Ec’s aren’t inculded…</p>