<p>I didn't even pick up the sophomore thing. Plenty of time. The financial issue should come out soon. You can do this--we all are with you!</p>
<p>When my son was in 8th grade and had ALL s-minuses (ALL!), he decided he wanted to go to MIT. A serious talk about what it would take seemed to elicit no real understanding of the issues. Strangely, though, he did pretty much everything it took, and will graduate from MIT in a few weeks.</p>
<p>My advice: milk your daughter's dream for all it's worth. Use it as motivation, bribery, etc. Meanwhile, look around for a few schools like the dream school but easier to get into.</p>
<p>And good luck.</p>
<p>Everyone should have a dream school. That being said, I would get the latest statistics from the school on acceptance rates (for class of 2011). From the rejection letters my daughter received, applications were at an all time high this year.</p>
<p>I'm not sure everyone sould have ONE dream school in this admissions climate-- a dream list, maybe.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for their advice. I'm not sure how much help her GC will be. She's only met him once in the 2 years she's been in high school. I don't think they get too involved with kids until their senior year. By then it will be pretty late to be putting a college list together. I haven't heard of Naviance but will check into it. </p>
<p>The school she has her heart set on is $40,000+ per year. We've saved for years but will only be able to pay about half that especially since her brother will still be in school. He's only able to attend the school he attends because of merit aid so a frank discussion with her about money is a good idea. </p>
<p>I think having someone else talk to her and having her see the schools admission stats in black and white will be very helpful. Right now I think she doesnt really understand how competitive the whole admissions process is. She thinks that I don't believe in her. I think she is very capable but I'm realistic. I also thought about showing her the list of schools her brother applied to. He applied to 4 reach schools, several matches and 2 safeties. He ended up getting into all but one of the reach schools but was prepared if he had been rejected from them all. </p>
<p>I also liked the idea of listing the things she likes about her dream school and then trying to find other schools that share the same characteristics. I'm not sure why she is so enamored with the dream school but it would be helpful to find out. </p>
<p>I'm a little nervous about having her apply ED. I'm pretty sure that she won't get in but if she does and doesn't get any merit aid, it will be unpleasant at our house! I'll have to check to see if the school has EA so that way she could find out early and then move on. </p>
<p>Thanks again for all of your good suggestions.</p>
<p>S's GC had never met him, I think until Jr year, but then he got very involved and definitely knew my son well enough to write a very personal rec. I had time to help my son put his list together, but GC would have helped him if needed. Don't know how it is in your hs.</p>
<p>I've heard the same story from many of my friends with girls--about the "you have no confidence in me" when safer options are suggested. Definitely have the financial discussion sooner rather than later. Most reach schools for admissions are also reach-y financially because few give merit aid. And definitely don't suggest she apply ED if the financial part is not feasible.</p>
<p>You are in good shape starting to research and ask questions at this point. All of my friends' daughters did, in the end, apply to some other, safer schools. One, at least, ended up prefering a safer option to the reachier one she also got into.</p>
<p>M's mom - sent you a PM</p>
<p>First of all, buckle your seatbelt. It sounds like you have a strong willed daughter, and while that can be a wonderful trait, it can make the next two years a little bumpy!</p>
<p>One suggestion - it would be worth every penny to do the $89 stats eval by CC. Have your daughter supply the information and let her read the results. I think what may be tough is that your son does have stronger stats. It will be tough to point out why he could look to certain schools to her without sounding like you are comparing her unfavorably to him. I think many posters had excellent suggestions - especially those dealing with the importance of being clear about what you are able to spend per year on her college education. One thing I would be careful of doing is - in an effort to keeping the moment light - joking about the whole thing. I am sure she is deadly serious and your attempts at humor may be perceived as sarcastic and demeaning. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>If she is a sophomore, there probably aren't enough stats to evaluate right now. She should probably wait till she takes SATs/ACT, and has first semester junior grades available. We never did such evaluations, so I don't know how it works, but I don't think there is enough info for an outsider to base any meaningful advice on at this point.</p>
<p>If she sees the stats for "dream school" now, she may be motivated to ramp up her academic performance next year.</p>
<p>My suggestion is to make your point about having a broad list using the money angle, not the qualifications angle. If you spell it out frankly that you have X amount of dollars to spend on her college education and the rest would have to come from scholarships, FA, merit aid, etc., and that's that, she will come to understand that she may not be able to attend her dream college due to real-life finances and that she needs to have a list with acceptable alternatives. She may herself begin to search for colleges that are similar to Dream College but more affordable or less selective. </p>
<p>IMO, no matter how tactfully you point out that her qualifications are not strong enough for Dream College in this extremely competitive period of admissions, she will feel hurt that you personally don't think she's good enough and don't believe in her. You (her parents) do not want to be the ones delivering this message even if it's true. If you're school GC is not going to be helpful about being realistic, I suggest you look for a private college counselor in your area who charges by the hour. Have D sit down with a third party to go over her resume to date --- grades, ECs, accomplishments, any standardized tests --- and also her "wants" in a college. Let the third party suggest what constitutes a good list for her with reaches, matches, safeties, and explain what kind of competition she is up against for admission to the DC. I agree with the person who wrote that this info will be more believable and less fraught with emotion if it comes from someone other than the parents.</p>
<p>IMO, no matter how tactfully you point out that her qualifications are not strong enough for Dream College in this extremely competitive period of admissions, she will feel hurt that you personally don't think she's good enough and don't believe in her.</p>
<p>I agree.
What I did- was write down what we could spend ( through income savings and loans) for Ds college. I added info about maximum loans that I thought she should take & about what she could expect to earn through working on campus and summers.
It was important to write it down, as then it felt more neutral than me nagging her.
I also wrote down info about schools that have an exchange program for 150% of instate tuition.
Schools that meet 100% of need based aid & schools where she might get some merit aid.
I don't want to be in the position of telling her she can't go to a school because we can't afford it, but rather than telling her she can't apply, I am helping her find other schools to consider as well.</p>
<p>Here's a scattergram available on the net of a class of 2006 for a large CA public high school. It has a great visual impact for the kids--you don't have to tell them that their chances at XYZ College are slim. They can see for themselves that anyone with stats outside of a certain area has an uphill climb for admission.</p>
<p>But on the positive side, the kids can see that there are plenty of colleges that would love to have them.</p>
<p>I agree that we need to see some SAT scores first.</p>
<p>I agree w/ Jazzy and Emerk4.</p>
<p>D will walk away bruised from ANY discussion of qualif - - but better to hear it from an obj 3rd party than a parent. But b/c the obsession w/ dream schs is often irrational, your D may not find arguments regarding the practical aspcets of selection (un/likelihood of admission) to be compelling. </p>
<p>And she may still want to toss the dice and hope for the best - - in terms of both admissions and $ - - so disuading her from applying, while a good idea, could prove difficult.</p>
<p>Yes - wait until PSAT's of junior year. We used the stats eval and it was really very good. The analysis by Dave Berry was very thorough and he made excellent recommendations and predictions. You could check out the questions now but wait until you have more information to send it in for an eval. I just think it is so good to have someone totally objective (and knowledgeable) giving some feedback!</p>
<p>PS - I am so happy to hear people emphasizing the importance of being clear about what a family is willing to spend. Now, I don't think kids need to know the nitty gritty of a family's finances, but they should know what you are willing to contribute, how much you think is reasonable for the child to borrow and how much the child should work/contribute. I have seen several kids who were admitted to their first choice schools only to find out their parents couldn't afford it. I think someone alluded to the thought that kids have dream schools not only in terms of their acceptances, but also in terms of scholarships/financial aid. </p>
<p>I know one girl who applied to several schools and was accepted at all of them, but her fallback position in terms of money was really pretty unappealing to her. She did all the right things in terms of evaluating her academic chances, but not the financial aspect. She is heading off to a school that gave her a scholarship, but she one that she doesn't like. Her parents are bright, well-educated people but I don't think they discouraged her from applying to some expensive schools that they were unable to afford. I am certainly not criticizing their decision - let's face it even schools that say they will meet financial need sometimes do it in such a way (ie -lots of loans) that the package is unmanageable. </p>
<p>Sorry to get off topic - but I feel bad for the kids AND the parents who are in this situation.</p>
<p>I have one who has recently graduated from college( Reed '06)- & even when she was a senior in high school, she was interested in attending art school.
I recognized that she was a talented artist ( IMO), but I also didn't want her to limit her choices. She was also interested in science & I stressed it was probably easier to do art on the side than science on the side :)</p>
<p>( If she had pushed for an art school, I would have not pushed back, but she was open to my reasoning)</p>
<p>She ended up taking a year off after high school, and graduating with a biology degree. ( her high school stats and grades were also below attending students at the time- )
Kids change a lot in the last few years of high school ( and in the first few years of college), just keep stressing that you don't want her to limit her options.</p>
<p>My son visited the "dream" school after his sophmore year. The admissions counselor was very blunt about what it took to get in and how many qualified applicants that they rejected. It was hard to hear, but helped him look for other schools that fit his "dream."</p>
<p>Such a tough situation. My D wanted only Yale, but, finally, with a lot of help from her school counselor, she got off Yale and it was Penn, and only Penn. She applied ED and was WL and later rejected. Although we took a college tour the summer before Senior year, we never saw the right mix of schools--her heart was set on Penn and I could hardly get her out of the car at the other schools. She aimed too high and was admitted at only two of the many schools to which she applied--UMich and Dickinson, her fathter's alma mater and her true back up school. To her credit, she became invested in the Mich decision and seems pretty excited. I believe she will have a great experience, but I am not certain it is the best school for her; just the best of the options she had. I tried not to be too involved in the list once her school counselor and private counselor both thought the list had the right balance of safeties, matches, and reaches. As it turns out, though, they were a bit off in their calculations. The problem I had with my D was that if I suggested other schools, she took offense as if I did not think she was "smart enough." It was a long and difficult year.</p>
<p>abric1, your situation sounds just like mine. I'm afraid that my D will remain fixated on her dream school and won't consider any others. I feel like I'm walking a tight rope. I don't want to discourage her and don't want her to think that I don't think she's smart enough but I am also realistic. In hindsight do you think there was anything you could have done differently?</p>