<p>Communication is the key many students lack. Some people go to college thinking that a degree will suffice. What they do not know is that the people you meet in college and the connection you make will be what really helps you achieve success. Extroverts and more sociable people have been shown to be more successful than shyer individuals. I have a friend who graduated from a state law school with a 3.0 GPA, that was able to get a job with a law firm which gave him a $90,000= starting salary. There is nothing special about him, his parents aren’t rich but he’s a talkative and very affable person. The ability to draw people to you and make them at ease when they talk to you is more valuable than a piece of paper. My other friend graduated form Emory law school with a 3.8 GPA and is still struggling to get a job. In college he spent a lot of time studying (not that good grades are bad) and little time meeting people. A lot of available jobs are gotten through connections not degrees or prestige value. My father is an interviewer and has always told me that if an interviewer likes you and you are well qualified for the position then you get the job.</p>
<p>I was trying to square what the usc person said with what eh employers said college grads lacked…it seems that these ARE the skills gained in a liberal arts education.</p>
<p>“A four-year liberal arts education doesnt prepare kids for work and it never has, said Alec R. Levenson a senior research scientist for the Center for Effective Organizations at the University of Southern California.”</p>
<p>When it comes to the skills most needed by employers, job candidates are lacking most in written and oral communication skills, adaptability and managing multiple priorities, and making decisions and problem solving, the report said.</p>
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<p>That’s exactly the kind of education my son, a recent graduate of a state flagship had. He had a liberal arts background and lab classes sponsored by businesses who wanted to work on product development. Of course, such classes were “elective” but opportunities were there if you looked. More enterprise learning situations are planned as it’s part of the rebranding of the School of Journalism. More of a competitor for the Business School in which they try to graduate students adept at written/oral communication, who know social media and can think constructively. I was impressed with the model and even more impressed with future plans. My son wishes he was in the class behind him.</p>
<p>I know my experience on a debate team helped me much more to acquire these skills than my formal education ever did.</p>
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<p>There is truth in this, but it’s also missing a key point. College gets crammed down our throats from elementary school, but no one ever says “You have to get a degree in something that will lead to a job.” I’ve been told my entire life about how I can study anything in college, the point is to get a degree and most people don’t end up doing anything having to do with their college degree. The point, for me, coming into college, was to get a degree and THEN I could decide. And then I got to college and realized that I had already set myself on a path of no sure job and I’m not sure how useful my undeergraduate degree will be, other than allowing me to go to grad school and get a useful degree.</p>
<p>People need to start telling 18 year olds that it’s okay to not go to college right out of high school and it might even be the smarter decision. If you can take some time out of school and save up some money, then you have a better chance of figuring out what you really want out of your undergraduate education and also not having to take out as many loans.</p>
<p>Another problem is that at 20, I’m much more practical than my 17 year old self. While I was still pretty practical at 17, (by choosing to go to a much more affordable in-state school than my dream school), I’m much more conscious of my decisions now than I was then. I think that’s probably the same for everyone.</p>
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<p>Yeah… that “practical” thing doesn’t stop… ever. I’m in my mid fifties and I could teach my 50 year old self quite a few lessons. My 50 year hold self could have taught my 45 year old self quite a few lessons. My 45 year old self could have taught my 40 year old self… etc, etc, etc…</p>
<p>Remember this when you’re talking to your parents/elders. They have a lifetime of that built up. The crime is we still don’t know how to convey that information to younger generations in a way you guys can comprehend.</p>
<p>Over the years, if I had a nickel every time I realized my parents really did understand something I thought they didn’t, I’d have an astounding collection of nickels.</p>
<p>I think it’s asinine and short-sighted to treat education as glorified job training. If you just want marketable skills, there are plenty of colleges you can pay to get a nice, utilitarian degree. They run ads on Spotify. Try ITT Tech or DeVry or something. </p>
<p>I like to think that the point of education is to make rounded people who can think and play and work and learn not because their job demands it, but because it intrigues them. Because it makes them happy. Because it makes their lives meaningful. It may seem stupid now to talk about a college education in these terms. But honestly, why should we be spending the time where our ONLY JOB is to learn to groom ourselves for work? That’s not learning. That’s equivalent to training a household pet. All those student organizations and professors and frats and sororities don’t exist purely so you can get a job and be the most attractive hunk of meat for employers. </p>
<p>Some of you talked about how students make themselves unemployable, to an extent. I agree with that notion. People who go into ANYTHING treating it as a means to an end gain very little from that thing. I have no doubt the same is true for college. If you’re just going to go in and expect to come out with just a degree, you are so wasting your time. If you’re expecting the admin to hand you an internship because you exist, think again. I think colleges do have to do something to help this situation, but not as much as the students. If you’re going to college, you should be mature enough to understand that you’re an adult now and should be making things for yourself. My dad’s a college professor at USC with ties to Brown, JPL, and Northrop Grumman (to name a few). Know how many of his students seek him out for advice, help, and maybe some opportunities at those places? I think the record is seven in one year. Seven out of the 90-150 undergrads he teaches in any given year. Many students just aren’t taking the time to seek out opportunities. Some of them might get burned, sure, but that’s no excuse not to try. A lot of people complain that our generation is entitled, that they want to have everything handed to them on a silver platter. A student exchange program with some prestigious firm isn’t going to help students in the long run as much as being your best advocate is. The classroom alone won’t make you ready for employment and the real world. We still have to carry a lot of that weight. </p>
<p>Time management, communication skills, priority management, etc., should come from engaging yourself in the world around you, not strictly from a classroom. Imagine how contrived that would be. Not everyone can go to HYP. Not everyone can go to a top school, period. Not everyone can get employed at a top firm. But just because you don’t go to a top school or get a paycheck from a top firm or make six figures or have an engineering degree doesn’t mean your life is over. Plenty of people never went to Harvard or are employed at Gensler. Are they miserable? If your undergraduate degree is what makes or breaks you, then a lot, I mean a LOT, more people should be leading terrible lives than really are. </p>
<p>You guys are all talking about this like college students are just cattle, to be cut up and made into marketable hunks of meat to be sold to the public! Really? That’s not the point. A man is not a piece of fruit. Colleges don’t produce ready-made employees for the job market, and that’s totally okay. If colleges were known for churning out the perfect employees, I wouldn’t even bother applying to college. That’s a waste of four years and a quarter million dollars.</p>
<p>maikai,</p>
<p>what wd you consider “household name” engineering colleges? What about UIUC ECE ? My son is a rising junior there. is he in a “household name” college and s/ he have run from it?</p>
<p>Idic5,
As good of a school as that is… unfortunately, no.</p>
<p>The “household name” schools I referred to are the schools that EVERYONE… ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, would know of whether they had a kid of college age or not.</p>
<p>The Ivies, MIT, Caltech, Cambridge, Oxford… and a very, very short list from there. </p>
<p>It has nothing to do with the quality of education or the success of the graduates and everything to do with how recognizable the college name is. This is because small engineering firms/consultants are very often sought out by people who are ignorant with regards to engineers, engineering, or the schools they come from.</p>
<p>For example, when I needed surgery on my eye, I used a medical group in NYC consisting of three surgeons from Harvard. Why? Because I don’t know a damn thing about surgeons, surgery, or medical schools, but I’ve heard of Harvard. ;-)</p>
<p>This may sound hypocritical of me, since I often write about how school prestige doesn’t buy the student as much as most people on this site think. That’s because professionals in the field of engineering who hire engineers (like me) are VERY familiar with engineers, engineering, and the schools they came from. So the students are catering to a knowledgeable audience rather than an ignorant one. They need to bring much more to the game than the name of their school. They need to bring evidence of real knowledge and some actual experience.</p>
<p>I had no way of telling if my eye surgeon was a good one or not. I can tell if a candidate for a position in my design group is a good one or not, and I don’t even need to see his diploma to do that.</p>
<p>Although you can argue that there are only a few household name engineering schools, most engineering schools are regional. So UIUC is the engineering school of choice in Illinois. The good people of Illinois would probably hire an Illinois grad over a Georgia Tech grad because they are familiar with the school. I also think that there are areas of the country where the big name school could be a bit of a disadvantage because people just are not all that smitten with name brands. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>MD Mom,</p>
<p>First, ALL schools are regional. Any thoughts otherwise is a figment of the imagination. The vast majority of any school’s graduates settle locally. The exception are those schools situated in the middle of nowhere and/or areas that can’t possibly absorb their graduates. People on this site tend to grossly misunderstand that situation and think those schools have some sort of national appeal over other “regional schools.” Not so at all. If those schools actually had the appeal they get credited for, they would enjoy near 100% placement due to their superior appeal, which they don’t. Actually, some of these “national appeal” institutions have some of the very poorest placement stats.</p>
<p>Second, you’ve lost the context of my initial comments. I was outlining the one situation where hiring someone based on where they went to school made any sense at all.</p>
<p>Small start-up engineering/consulting firms with a limited number of partners need any and all advantages they can find, real or perceived. These firms tend to hire only household names due to the instant recognition those names bring… across the ENTIRE population of this nation, not just IL. They have not built up any equity with regards to reputation, so they have to rely on name recognition. </p>
<p>Although UIUC is a wonderful school, few board room members across this nation will be impressed that the group they are about to spend millions of dollars with has a UIUC graduate in their midst. :-/ I dare say that would go for board rooms in Chicago as well.</p>
<p>Larger firms, who’s reputation equity is based on actual performance… past projects, etc… would most certainly consider UIUC grads, as well as grads from a host of schools.</p>
<p>That doesn’t make sense</p>
<p>How I got an experienced offer from an F100ish tech firm straight out of undergrad:</p>
<p>1) Worked at an F100 retailer since I was 16, continued throughout college. Spun selling electronics as somewhat relevant to tech.
2) Helped run a small business
3) Read - A LOT
4) Transferred from a CC to a good, but not elite, university
5) Started learning about career options, read a ton online. Took notes. Read through the course files for an MBA program AND an MS program. Went to financial valuation seminars and programming seminars.
6) Maintained a decent, but not amazing GPA with a hard major and 2 minors. Also highlighted high SAT/ACT scores
7) VP of a club relevant to my interests.
8) Did a variety of internships that were all vaguely relevant (or could be spun as such) to a wide set of professional development skills. Did two at major corporations. Getting internships required A LOT of interview practice well in advanced (preparing last minute makes you sound rehearsed and disinegnuine, don’t ask me how I know)
9) Networked aggressively. Drove ~2 hours to attend career fairs at two better regarded universities.
10) Performed exceptionally at the last internship. Networked aggressively within the company. First project was floated to a C-level executive and got a multi-million dollar issue looked into and resolved.</p>
<p>A lot of this is luck. A lot of it is preparation. A lot of the opportunities I had wouldn’t have happened if I had given up like I was temped. I put in somewhere around 200 applications for internships and jobs all in total throughout a 3 year period. I had something like 20-30 interviews in total, and received offers for 7 or 8 positions including internships and received only one full time offer out of it all. Said offer was arguably better than most other potential offers I could have gotten (one was comparable but I think I’m happier where I’m at now) and I’ll admit the effort I put out diminished after receiving it.</p>
<p>bceagle said: “Five years ago, if you told me that Ivy League Engineering Graduates with good GPAs couldn’t get jobs - I wouldn’t have believed you. Today, I see it with my own eyes.”</p>
<p>I thought I heard that companies are saying there are shortages of American STEMP talent and so this is one reason that the H-1b STEM hi skilled visa limits need to be expanded (tripled in the Senate Bill).</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>