Thank you for all the insights here @JackH2021 ! I agree, I really liked Pitt more than I expected to. I feel like we didn’t get as strong an understanding of their engineering program compared to the other schools we visited, so that’s sort of my hesitation there. I feel like I know what the other schools offer in terms of engineering program and experience, either via the visit or the web, and I don’t have that so much for Pitt.
Yes, we also got some good merit aid with CWRU - but then saw how much the overall cost had jumped from what’s published on their website, and that offer didn’t feel quite so good anymore. I’ll have to check the emails to make sure there’s nothing else in there about other scholarships. My son found a bunch of school specific scholarships on their websites and did applications over the winter break, so hopefully he’s already found them but, if not, the more the merrier in this case.
Oh, and I didn’t mean to sound like a strong engineering school won’t be a challenge in terms of the academics. I meant more that my kid is pretty well prepared to manage stress, and seek out assistance. We’ve helped him build a good system for how to plan his activities and work, and to see early if there’s an area where he’s struggling and to know how to identify who can help, and how to reach out. Frankly, this is one of the side benefits of his dyslexia. He had to learn early how to manage time, plan, ask for help, and deal with major challenges and he’s gotten really good at it. That said, a good culture is really what I want for him. But how do you figure that out?
He’ll likely do fine at any of these schools, but if I can make it easier for him to be happy, then I’d like to do that.
@Knowsstuff - I think he’s leaning towards Case. I have kind of a soft spot for Lehigh and WPI, because coaches at both would like him to be on their teams, and I’d like that for him (seeing how much that community has meant to him in highschool). The WPI coach in particular really spoke to what I want - a supportive athletic environment where they understand academics come first, and they work to help you plan so that they two can work together. And I just loved the WPI campus and everyone we met. But this isn’t my choice, it’s my son’s, and he’s so nervous about “what if he doesn’t want to be an engineer”. I think Case feels really good to him right now, and he knows he’s in, and he knows they offered enough merit aid to make it doable. Unfortunately, we won’t hear from Lehigh until March something, and who knows what aid will look like.
And yes, of course you are right that college academics will be different. What I meant wasn’t just that he’s done well in high school (he has, he’s never had a quarter/semester/final grade other than an A with all honors and AP academics) but he’s really built up his executive functioning and planning skills. Because of the issues posed by his dyslexia, and all the time constraints of his sport, he really needs to plan out assignments and how to study and he can’t fall behind. He needs to know how to reach out for help early, and he’s gotten good at that when he sees something he doesn’t know. It’s those skills, more than the grades he’s gotten, that I think will stand him in good stead. (Now if this were my other kid, it would be a different story…)
@eyemgh - you hit the nail on the head here. We aren’t focusing much on which schools are ranked better. He took off several from his list that he had a better than decent chance of getting into that were ranked higher because they didn’t offer merit aid (or not enough, based on common data set info).
Out of any of these schools, he should get a good job, or get into a good grad school if that’s what he wants (heck, Pitt offered him admission to the masters program already based on this application). Since first job isn’t only job, and I don’t expect him to have debt (so salary, while nice, is less important) what I want for him is focused more on experience and thinking ability.
Is he going to learn the skills he needs to learn to be successful in his career; is he more likely than not to be happy with his overall college experience; will he be positioned to find a job in the area (both of expertise and country) in which he wants to work. I think that potentially all of these schools can meet all of those questions. So really, it comes down to how does he pick? What things does he value and weigh more heavily than others?
Hopefully these conversations will help me, help him, figure out how to make that decision.
Most engineering programs are very good at this. They teach how to synthesize new knowledge from given information.
It sounds like WPI is the ideal school school for him with the exception of the fear that he might not stay in engineering. If that’s the case, does WPI offer other things that interest him?
My argument though for WPI regardless, based on what I know about the school, is that it might be the best school to insure he does stay in engineering.
You and your son might want to read the book " How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices" by Annie Duke. She was an almost-PhD (didn’t finish dissertation) who went on to become a successful poker player. In an excerpt posted on Goodreads she writes
The greater the number of available options, the greater the likelihood that more than one of those options will look pretty good to you. The more options that look pretty good to you, the more time you spend in analysis paralysis. That’s the paradox: more choice, more anxiety. Remember, if the only choices are between Paris and a visit to a trout cannery, no one has a problem. But what if the choices are Paris or Rome or Amsterdam or Santorini or Machu Picchu? For any options you’re considering, ask yourself, “If this were the only option I had, would I be happy with it?” If this were the only place I could go for vacation . . . If this were the only college I got accepted to… The Only-Option Test clears away the debris cluttering your decision. If you’d be happy if Paris were your only option, and you’d be happy if Rome were your only option, that reveals that if you just flip a coin, you’ll be happy whichever way the coin lands.”
Once you’ve ruled out colleges that have a flaw (too expensive, don’t like options if not an engineer, students say environment is cut-throat, etc) then it may indeed be a tossup.
I’d tweak the semantics a little and add fatal to flaw. All schools have flaws. It’s really a matter of whether or not a student and their family can live with them.
OctoberKate, Back to CWRU scholarships… here is the link provided in their email. If your son did First Robotics, they sponsor a scholarship valued at up to $10K/year. The Treuhaft Scholarship is a four year, full tuition award. Ignore the Jan 15 deadlines; I called the school and they extended the submission date to Feb 1.
If he doesn’t stay in engineering, what would he choose? My daughter did pick a smaller tech school, but I knew if she didn’t want to stay in engineering she’d go to chemistry or math and the school had plenty of opportunities in those majors too. She wasn’t a kid who wanted English or history or music as a major.
My DS is still waiting on a few, but current top two are CWRU and Purdue. He also loves economics and what I loved about Case was the ability to minor, double major, etc. - and how common and supported it was. I also really loved all the levels of advising. I really felt my DS would be taken care of. And, the students walking around when we visited seems like him - that he’d find his people. And we actually really enjoyed Cleveland (and flying home doesn’t seem that difficult given ease of access to the airport). He received 31.5K in merit, but like you we were disappointed in the final cost to us given the 8k tuition increase. We expected an increase, just not an 8k increase.
That being said, he’s leaning toward Purdue. I do worry if for some reason he doesn’t like engineering - it would potentially mean transferring (there’s been some grumbling on Purdue’s campus about the lack of resources being invested in non-stem majors/departments). And I worry about the size of Purdue. He did get accepted to the Honors program so that should help a little with size.
We are signed up for admitted students programs at both and hoping one clearly eclipses the other.
ginger, We had some of the same concerns re Purdue. My son, J, applied as MechE, but he is interested in other fields like BioChem. Case is attractive because 1. students are not locked into a major until late sophomore year, 2. students don’t need to compete to gain admission into their preferred engineering discipline as they do at Purdue, and 3. the school facilitates and encourages double majors and minors. My son applied as a MechE largely because he followed the strategy of applying to the most selective and competitive major in which he might be interested. A student can always switch from EE to CivE or Econ, but they cannot switch from CivE to CompSci. We could see J majoring in MechE, but minoring in BioChem, even if it meant an extra semester.
Just want to note that Purdue is very generous with AP credit. It will open up a lot of room for adding a minor, certifications, and even double majoring for some disciplines. There is also a benefit for being able to declare a major sooner - being able to get internships after freshman year.
That said, if you have a child with multiple interests, that isn’t set on engineering or STEM, you’ll have more flexibility at Case.
Just remember that there’s a trade off for this. There are only so many hours one can take. Choosing to spend them on something other than engineering simply means less engineering classes. Students who choose this route will have a more diverse education, but it will suffer in technical depth. That might hurt them against applicants who went all in on engineering.
I highly recommend, if feasible, a trip to Purdue. We did a trip this summer to Purdue, Case Western and Carnegie Mellon. I really thought the Purdue trip was to rule it out - we tacked it on as we have relatives in Indianapolis and we had tickets to a race there. Turns out, DS22 really liked it and it’s a top contender currently.
That was pretty much my son’s arc as well – we visited CWRU, Pitt, and CMU in a swing through Ohio and western PA; then saved our last college road trip for Purdue. After he saw Purdue, he knew that’s where he wanted to be. He is now finishing up his senior year in engineering at Purdue.
@twoinanddone - that’s the weird thing, he’s never talked about what else he would want. He says not business or economics. Ok, then what? He really has loved and excelled in his English/History/Foreign Language classes, but I don’t see him doing any of those things as a major. Sure, maybe a minor or a few fun classes, but engineering/science/math have always been his thing. i guess I could maybe, maybe see architecture. But that’s it.
