<p>I'm only a junior, but I'm definetely 'feeling the burn' of this fall's upcoming college frenzy. I visited 6 colleges over spring break: Wesleyan, Brown, Northeastern, Boston College, Amherst, and Williams. Brown was my former top school, but I actually liked Williams and Wesleyan better, and out of those two, I like Wesleyan the best. I plan on doing ED, and I think my parents will pretty much force me to do Brown ED. I like Brown enough that this is okay with me, but if I were to be rejected/deferred, I would LOVE to use that as an excuse to apply to Wesleyan ED II. </p>
<p>The only problem is that my dad does not think Wesleyan is a 'worthy' school. He said he will only pay full price for 3 of the schools on my list: Brown, UChicago, and Northwestern. I could probably convince him to pay for Williams, because it's #1 this year on the US News rankings, but I have no idea how to 'prove' that Wesleyan is a quality school. I know that is, obviously, and so do many people in the academic world and the workplace, but my dad went to Yale and Brown, which makes him sort of an Ivy snob, so he isn't very understanding. I LOVE Wesleyan. I love the atmosphere, College of Letters program, the middle-sizedness of Middletown, the eclectic mix of architecture, senior woodframes- EVERYTHING. How can I convey this to my dad...help!</p>
<p>this may be a case of ivy league jealousy, i.e., if a small college like Wesleyan can make the case that it's as good an investment as Brown, how do you think that makes Brown people feel? </p>
<p>You have to tread carefully; casually point out that the fellow blowing up barbecues and shouting "Awesome!" in those Verizon commercials made a pile of money with his Wesleyan degree (Michael Bay,<code>86; that every time he uses an ATM, he's taking money out of a gadget first developed and produced by a Wesleyan alum (Walter Wriston,</code>41). And, next time he flies on a discount airline flying "point to point" between two major cities, he's flying an airline based on business principles developed by a Wes alum (Bill Kelleher, `53). Oh, and maybe ask your dad, who was the greatest president in Brown University history. If he's half the ivy league afficionado he thinks he is, he'll answer Henry Merritt Wriston (Wesleyan, Class of 1911). </p>
<p>But, again be careful of his feelings. He's your dad.</p>
<p>it would always be difficult for a Yale and Brown alum to justify anything of lesser prestige, or at least as perceived generally.</p>
<p>Although I think your dad might not be unjustified. I am personally a fan of family tradition, and nothing is as venerable a tradition as going to the same college of one's forefathers. Irrespective of Wesleyan's own excellent merits, it is arguable that if the preference is small and not absolute, one should consider family tradition when choosing colleges.</p>
<p>A lot of my friends went to Stanford simply because it was the thing expected of them by family history. It worked out very well in a sense because they knew exactly what to expect and what fraternity they are going to be in, and so on and so forth. Eliminates a lot of uncertainty associated with college.</p>
<p>It is your college experience and it should be unique to you and your personality. It is a once in a lifetime experience. Wesleyan was a fine choice for Ted Kennedy's son and Norman Mailer's son. The president of Williams is a Wesleyan alum. Woodrow Wilson taught at Wesleyan...and the list goes on and on. Start your own tradition!</p>
<p>^I think you mean, Anthony Marx, the president of Amherst. And though, I'm sure the folks over in alumni relations count him as an alum, he finished with the best of both worlds: a Wesleyan education and a degree from Yale :) Anthony</a> Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>I know how you feel. My dad went to Yale undergrad and Harvard for med school, so when I wanted to apply early decision to Wesleyan, he was not thrilled - he wanted me to apply early to either Yale or Brown. Eventually he did just see how good a fit it was for me. I explained all the reasons why I could see myself happy at Wesleyan so much more than I could at the other schools - and he eventually respect my choice. And it worked out! I've been extremely happy here.</p>
<p>This may be coming from someone who is trying to transfer out of Wes, but I still think my two years at Wes have been well "worth it", and it wouldn't be that big a deal if I stayed:</p>
<p>Before I came to Wes, if you asked me what my hobbies were in high school, I would have said video games, drinking, and football. If you asked me today, it would still involve football, but everything else about my mentality has completely changed.</p>
<p>I just spent two hours after class talking about the United States' East Asia foreign policy with my Soviet history professor. Last Friday I spent an hour learning and practicing Hindi with my Indian history professor. I am already starting to work on my senior history thesis paper with one of my Latin American studies professors. I know that I can walk into any of my professor's offices, sit down with them, and have a conversation about anything I want, for basically as long as I want. They are THAT supportive and welcoming of their students (at least the ones that I have). If you're willing to learn and are passionate, the faculty is 100% behind you every step of the way and will do everything they can to accommodate you. Everybody wants to change the world, yawn... whatever... but Wesleyan gives you both the tools to do so and the passion to carry you for the rest of your life. When you're paying tuition, you're not paying for simply the name on the diploma, you're paying the institution to mold you from some wide-eyed, ignorant, annoying freshman into an inquisitive, passionate lifelong intellectual with a compelling sense of moral duty and responsibility. And that is exactly what Wes will do- it's worth all the money in the world in my opinion.</p>
<p>However I will also add that your dad, the "Ivy League snob", has very legitimate points. In the end, if he isn't willing to pay for Wesleyan, then you're just going to have to move on. It IS his money, after all. You'll get good educations at any of those schools.</p>
<p>haha, the funny thing is this has nothing to do with "family tradition." There's a single Brown pennant on the wall of our family office, and we get both Yale Medicine and Brown Medicine, and my dad donates $500 a year because he thinks it'll "help me get in." That's the extent of my dad's alumni status. The only reason he wants me to go to a "brand name school" is because I don't really have any particular interests yet in terms of an actual career, and he assumes that since I don't know what I should do, I need the Ivy name behind me so that I can easily suceed when I finally choose. It's a really odd philosophy. </p>
<p>I was looking more along the lines of actual stastical evidence that Wesleyan is beyond decent school. He's a facts and figures kind of guy; I tried showing him some anecdotal evidence of the difficulty of college admissions by letting him look at this year's Brown application results thread, and he pretty much said "everyone on that site is probably lying."</p>
<p>And I have no problem going to Brown (if I even get in), it's just that I feel I'd thrive much better in an environment like Wesleyan's.</p>
<p>Tell your Dad to read "The Gatekeepers" by Jacques Steinberg (order from Amazon) if you want some evidence of the integrity and desirability of Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Forgive me, your father seems pretty ignorant if he thinks people are lying about the difficulty of Brown admissions. I would absolutely rage at him if he didn't think Wesleyan was worth the investment...</p>
<p>Point him to the numerous articles in newspapers that show exactly how hard it is this year (and next year will be the absolute hardest in history) to get into a great college at that level.</p>
<p>I just went through it with my high school. Our valedictorian got rejected/waitlisted from every single Ivy League school. I'm not going to run through his stats but he was more than qualified for all of them.</p>
<p>Its a crap shoot, even ED. And Ivy status is only recognition. I'd argue you'd get a better education at Wesleyan based on visiting both Brown and Wesleyan.</p>
<p>UChicago is not as good a school as Wesleyan, in terms of the education you will get in my opinion. </p>
<p>I just talked with someone who is a friend of my family who used a Wesleyan degree to get a competitive internship at JP Morgan, intern at NASA, and then start up their own incredibly successful company that has a monopoly on the Spanish "baby" television market.</p>
<p>A liberal arts degree will certainly help in almost anything you'd like to do - especially from a high-profile and well-respected school like Wesleyan.</p>
<p>You might want to take a look at the Career Resource Center's page about "What Wesleyan Alumni Do" - it's interesting, though a year or two outdated, I think: CRC</a> - What Wesleyan Alumni Do</p>
<p>Also note that a lot of Wesleyan students choose to do take a year or two after graduation and work for a nonprofit or for some service corps, often while living with other alums in a big city, so the data is also a bit skewed. Take a look at this most recent Argus article about seniors doing Teach for America (which is actually very competitive): [url=<a href="http://wesleyanargus.com/article/6251%5DThe">http://wesleyanargus.com/article/6251]The</a> Wesleyan Argus - Teach for America challenges alumni<a href="note%20that%2074%20seniors%20applying%20is%20about%2010%%20of%20the%20senior%20class!">/url</a></p>
<p>miller, your reference to JP Morgan is interesting, if chiefly because i want to work there/goldman sachs/ubs/rothschilds/etc and do international investment banking & corporate/foreign govt finance.</p>
<p>can you give me any idea of how accessible such careers are with a Wesleyan degree, versus say, a degree from Boston College Carroll Management, USC Marshall, or Vanderbilt?</p>
<p>I'm a high school student =p, so no, not really.</p>
<p>I can't give you any clear idea, but I've talked the two alum I've talked to from Wesleyan were very very successful outside of the college. The woman I mentioned in reference to JP Morgan got into some ultra-selective internship where only 20 people were taken. She ended up abandoning career choices in that avenue when she had an inspiration to start her own company, which is doing very well.</p>
<p>She did tell me that she got into the program, she believes, because Wesleyan gave her an edge in terms of having something different that other prospective interns did not have. She speaks several languages fluently, and had taken a large array of classes at Wesleyan that gave her a very unique skill set, and she said that that was the likely reason she was selected.</p>
<p>Your dad is definitely incorrect in believing that an ivy league education will better serve "undecideds" than the liberal arts. At most ivy league schools, especially someplace like Brown, whose minimal gen ed requirements make counseling uncommon, you won't get very much guidance or directed breadth of study at all.</p>
<p>Is he just anti-LAC? I wonder what he thinks about Amherst and Swarthmore. Maybe you could bring up the "Little Three" athletic league (Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams) that is comparable to the Ivy League.</p>
<p>I can't really knock Brown on this point but Northwestern and UChicago are BIG universities. It seems to me an oddity to pay all that money to have your child be in large(r) classes, taught by (albiet talented) graduate students, with limited direct access to professors and research materials easily availible at a Wes or a Williams. I can't REALLY argue him down on the Graduate programs at the Ivy's but for undergrad? At that level, You're paying for the name, not the education. NOTE: there are plenty of folks who seem to like the undergrad at those big schools, but as a purely cost effective decision - I don't get it.</p>