<p>Hello. My son loves languages. He speaks three different languages including English at home, and has been taking French in school. He will be entering 9th grade this fall after having completed one year (Level I) of French. He wants to take four years of Latin in high school but, if he does so, he will not have any electives left for taking additional years of French. </p>
<p>One option he is considering is summer school at his school, which offers French classes that meet two hours five time a week for six weeks. This would give him three additional years of French by the start of junior year if he started this summer. This could possibly be for credit, with the school's permission, but the credit is not as important to him as progressing in the language. </p>
<p>However, I wonder whether summer school would keep him from doing other things in which he might become interested. There's a real opportunity cost to taking a second foreign language.</p>
<p>Also, do you think admissions committees would have a bad opinion of someone who has spent consecutive summers in summer school?</p>
<p>What do you think of this plan? Can you think of other ways that he could continue in French?</p>
<p>Do you think it would be better for him to continue French courses in school so that he can reach Level V of French, and just take Latin during the summers?</p>
<p>The French and Latin teachers in the school are top-notch and equally good. In summer school they could be the regular term-time teachers, but they could also be teachers hired just for the summer school.</p>
<p>Hmm. In my situation, ever since freshman year I knew that languages were a priority; I decided to continue my french all throughout high school, and decided to pick up chinese 1 as a sophomore (and have continued it up until now, as a senior in chinese 3). it hasn’t been easy taking it, as I’ve had to tweak my schedule, but it’s worked out for me.</p>
<p>In order to take chinese 1 sophomore year along with french, I took government over the summer. It was pretty laid back, and I’m glad I did it. As a junior, I took chemistry over the summer (6 weeks!) in order to take chinese 2. as a senior, I have the most freedom in my schedule and have decided to not take physics in order to continue the second language.</p>
<p>My point? Yeah, it hasn’t been easy taking 2 languages, but in the end it was worth it for me-even if it meant giving up my summers. As well, I believe that colleges saw I wasn’t necessarily a science person (having not taken physics senior year for chinese), and respected that.</p>
<p>I do not believe that it is possible even for the most linguistically capable student to progress from French I to at least the equivalent of French III by taking summer courses in French 6 weeks (for 60 hours) at a time separated by 46 weeks of no language training. I think the summer training will have the effect of assuring that the student does not regress from the French 1 level. It’s not a good investment of time.</p>
<p>Languages are useful and rewarding only when true fluency arrives, and that barely happens for most students until they complete French IV, and ideally higher.</p>
<p>I’m in 10th and I take Spanish 3 and Latin I, and to be honest it is so m uch more worth it than an elective. Sure I don’t have one in 10th but in 11th when I dont have to take gym, I will pick one up again</p>
<p>I had to pick between French and Latin last year, and I chose Latin. Latin is somewhat similar to French since they’re both Romance languages and French grew out of Latin, but my advice would be to stick with both languages. It will probably help your son get into a better college if he sticks with both languages.</p>
<p>So, as I understand some concerns you’ve raised, maybe because fluency is more important in a spoken language such as French than in Latin, my son should take French during the school year and take Latin during the summers? I’m not so concerned about fluency in Latin.</p>
<p>A key advantage of continuing French during the school year is that he can reach Level V/AP French and take the AP exam. If he starts Latin now during the school year, he’ll never reach Level V/Vergil and be prepared for the AP without self-studying (which is not his style at all, as he <em>needs</em> the structure of class instruction). </p>
<p>Another option would be to satisfy science requirements during the summers, but I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with his squeezing such important core courses as biology, chemistry, and physics into six weeks. </p>
<p>I do think that Latin, even if not spoken these days, is useful to know as a foundation for English, romance languages like French, and fields such as law and medicine.</p>
<p>I could understand your concerns about “squeezing” core courses into 6 weeks, especially if he enjoys science. When I took chemistry over the summer for 6 weeks, I was so immersed in the subject for that short period of time and did phenomenally in the class, but a little while after I finished, I didn’t remember ANYTHING! Good thing that doesn’t bother me, though, because as I said I’m not a science person.</p>
<p>Ha ha! Not remembering anything would be what my son would do! Yes, he needs all the help he can get when it comes to memory and retention. If a six-week blitz doesn’t stay with a person for long, I don’t know how useful it would be for learninh a language. Summer courses may be better just as refreshers or reviews or intros.</p>
<p>Summer courses are also good for getting credits out of the way. I took Health and Chemistry over the summer so I could take a science AP during the school year. </p>
<p>I would recommend taking French at school and learning Latin at home (through books, online courses, community college, etc). Latin isn’t very difficult to self study and I know a few people who have successfully self studied it. But I’ve heard that the AP exam is brutal…</p>
<p>It requires a good deal of determination, motivation, and passion though. When I was in my language phase, I picked up some Latin and then dropped it after a month It was fun and easy while it lasted though. But your son sounds like he really likes languages and I’m sure he’ll do much better than I did.</p>
<p>Good point, about summer courses’ being good for getting credits out of the way. I looked at all of my son’s school’s summer offerings, to see what credits he could earn in summer to free up periods in his schedule so that he could take both French and Latin during the school year. I was hoping for a something less core, like a history of religion course (required by his school for graduation) but all that are offered are core courses in English, math, science, French, Latin, Japanese, Ancient Greek, Chinese, and Spanish. Nothing soft. </p>
<p>My son needs the structure of a course. I know him, and he could not self-study a language. </p>
<p>We may have to make an appointment with the head of the upper school and see what can be worked out. I hope I don’t have to plead, and I wish this could be easier.</p>
<p>My county allowed me to start foreign language for high school credit in 6th grade. Because of that, I entered high school with 3 credits of Spanish behind me. I also wanted to take French, so I took French 1 and Spanish 4 together in freshman year. Because French is my IB elective, I have to get up to level 5 by my senior year. To do this, I skipped French 2 and went straight to French 3 for sophomore year. As a current sophomore, I’m in Honors Spanish 5 and Honors French 3. </p>
<p>Here’s the thing - I spent my summer abroad (in a non French speaking country) and so I couldn’t take French 2 in summer school. I did some scattered work with a tutor, which totaled about 9 hours of instruction over the whole summer, and I’m doing just fine in French 3. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything except maybe a little speaking practice. I feel like the jump from French 1 - 3 is very doable. </p>
<p>My school is on a 7 period day with 2 elective periods. One foreign language is considered part of the core curriculum, but a second one can be taken as an elective. Because I’m doing the IB diploma, my requirements are getting a little tricky, but I’m planning to take Health and Tech ed (elective requirements) online. Is there any way your son could do something like this? If he has county requirements like this, you should talk to the principal - they will often try to accommodate you. If this isn’t possible, I would advise that he takes one of the languages out of school rather than trying to take science in summer school. Because science is a more fundamental and important course than a second foreign language, it’s not worth it academically or otherwise to compromise there, in my opinion. </p>
<p>My suggestion to your son would be to stay in French so that he can progress to AP. He’ll get to a higher level/fluency in French than he would in Latin anyway, so it might be a more logical choice. If he’s really interested in learning Latin, you could find a tutor or maybe talk to the Latin teacher to see if she could assign him work outside of school. French (to me) just seems more relevant and useful. Of course, as a probable French major, I just might be biased :)</p>
<p>I’m not sure if somebody has brought this up yet, but the problem with summer school is that he won’t be using it (unless you allow him to find online friends who are French) ten out of the twelve months of the year. At that stage, French I, it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to have a teacher to help you with everything. You learn all the basics of French in the first three years, or at least how I did. So it’s not as easy as it may seem, to just try and find people to talk it with, when he doesn’t have that great of a grasp on the language (as he is a beginner). This is coming from a high school senior who has consistently been the best French student at his school. You need a teacher to help with any questions he may have and especially for pronunciation purposes.</p>
<p>Latin in summer school also isn’t ideal because while he may be learning it for a month or two, the other months he will have no luck at all finding people to practice it with. Learning Latin resources are limited online also. So while pronunciation may not be a factor in learning it, the consistency of writing and reading it is a lot harder to maintain than French. Plus the grammar is a pain too.</p>
<p>I took French for five years, like your son is planning to, starting in eighth grade. I found it went mostly like this;
I: Learned most of the basics; present tense, pass</p>
<p>Wow, I am really impressed by what some of you have done for your study of French. Your love for the language really comes through in the efforts you have made and even just in your posts. </p>
<p>The reasons my son, my husband, and I all favor my son’s continuing in French to Level V is that French is indeed a beautiful language, my son enjoys it immensely, and my husband and I both speak it as well and would like our entire family to (my daughter has her work cut out for her, unless she has a strong preference otherwise). </p>
<p>But then Latin has so much to commend it, and my son wants to learn it, so how can we say no?</p>
<p>I do understand, from your posts, what a great disadvantage it would be to have to learn any language from just a 60-hour, 6-week exposure per year without aural, oral, and written practice throughout the year under a teacher’s instruction. Summer school is not an ideal solution at all.</p>
<p>I have left a message this morning with the head of the upper school, and we’ll see what options he suggests. Maybe there’s no dilemma between French and Latin? Let’s hope. I’ll post what I find out.</p>
<p>Sometimes Latin isn’t accepted as a foreign language by colleges, which is something to consider. You should be able to check with colleges he’s interested in though. I’d definately recommend keeping up both languages though - I’m attempting the same thing right now but I have more flexibility than the school is giving your son. </p>
<p>He could try online classes, self studying, community college… if he went with summer school you’d have to find a way for him to keep it up during the year as it’s easy to forget languages. Are there foreign language schools in your area where he could try? </p>
<p>My son took German and French 9, 10 and 11th grade. He just signed up for his senior classes and decided to drop one language in order to FINALLY be able to take electives. The bigger problem we had was convincing the GC that he should be allowed to take two languages at once. She got ticked off about it and scheduled him for back to back class periods. (I am certain she wanted him to fail just so she could prove herself right)</p>
<p>Community college is not a real option for term-time because his school day extends from 8:00 am to 6:30 pm, no exceptions, because athletics is required for everyone 5 days a week – it’s a boys’ school. Then there are 3 to 4 hours of homework a night. I don’t know when he’d have time to get over to the community college!</p>
<p>And, as I explained above, he’s not a born self-studier.</p>
<p>What a terrible attitude in a GC. I was lucky in school to have an academic dean (this was pre-GC days for the girls’ day school I attended) who suggested that I take both French and Latin concurrently when the idea of taking Latin hadn’t even occurred to me, much less to my laissez-faire parents. I’m glad you son managed to thrive with both languages and now has the freedom to take an elective!</p>
It was fun and easy while it lasted though. But your son sounds like he really likes languages and I’m sure he’ll do much better than I did.</p>