<p>You have to admit, you left yourself open to it.</p>
<p>"And from people I've talked to, places like Ohio State, BC, Wisconsin outdue places like Williams, Swarthmore, UPENN, and Columbia due to recognition...it raises the question: what's in a name?"</p>
<p>You need to talk to more people. There is not a grad school adcom in the world that would agree with that observation.</p>
<p>Undergraduate degrees aren't that important anymore. The few great jobs you can get straight out of college (generally in the finance sector) absolutely do care about where you go to college (and are knowledgeable about the difference between Swarthmore and Penn State). </p>
<p>For virtually all of the rest of the better-paying jobs available, some sort of graduate degree is required. Grad schools absolutely do care about where you go to college (and are also knowledgeable about the differences between Swarthmore and Penn State).</p>
<p>If your career aspirations are to work a blue collar job (and there's nothing wrong with that), then from a purely career perspective, it probably doesn't matter much if you go to Penn State or Swarthmore. However, if you're aiming for something better paid or more competitive in one way or another, in almost all cases, it will make a difference. </p>
<p>Additionally, your post makes me think that you haven't actually entered the job market yet. When you do, you'll find that the name of your college is far less important than your own character--how well well you write, how well you think, how well you carry yourself, your resume, etc. All of these things will be affected significantly by which college you attend (and for most students, attending a "top" school will prepare you better for your interview than attending a "regional" school--although it is important to note that this won't be the case for every single student).</p>
<p>Finally, to a certain extent, you're missing the point of college. College is not merely a means to the end of securing a good employment. You will mature academically and socially in college, and where you go to college will shape that. For some students, Penn State may be a better place to do that than Swarthmore. For others, that might not be the case. In focusing entirely on career prospects, you are forgetting that the primary point of college is to get an education, not a career.</p>
<p>And then there's the possibility that you, who graduated at the very top of your high school class with perfect SATs, end up at Penn State where you get to take advantage of opportunities that are only available to the best students (included funded travel opportunities and internships). You graduate Phi Beta Kappa, and go to HY grad school. If you had chosen a school filled with other kids who graduated at the top of their class with perfect SATs, that might not have happened. Either way, you would get a good education if that is what you wanted because, after all, it's up to you and there are excellent teachers in the most unlikely places. For example, the extraordinary number of professor types in the NY metropolitan area means that many of the community colleges actually offer good - great educations. On the other hand, smart people who don't put muscle behind it don't get a good education anywhere.<br>
My problem with rankings is that it's all about what other people think. College presidents have admitted that they don't know the first thing about what happens at schools other than their own. So the fact that 25% of the USNWR score is based on opinions of college presidents seems pretty ridiculous.
And then there's the fact that so few people attend LACs (3% of all college students) that most people aren't familiar with them. Not even Amherst and Williams. And off this board, most people don't care so much. You'll get a job if you're good and you do good work. I ran an office filled with Phi Beta Kappas and Summa Cum Laudes from Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia and they were the most unambitious people I'd ever met. The organization's management graduated from lowly, unheard of schools.</p>
<p>And from people I've talked to, places like Ohio State, BC, Wisconsin outdue places like Williams, Swarthmore, UPENN, and Columbia due to recognition...it raises the question: what's in a name?</p>
<hr>
<p>The people you talk to waste too much of their time watching football and judging schools in the way that average joe schmoe from Tulsa might judge schools. You should expect more intellectualism out of your peers. </p>
<p>Which is why I think this entire thread is absurd. Basically, the OP thinks schools should be judged by what sort of jobs they can open up. God forbid there's more to an education - like perhaps learning? </p>
<p>If you know how to invest big sums of money, but not philosophically why or where to do so to increase the overall quality of life on our planet without causing destruction in the name of short-term gains (notice current economic quagmire as an example), then you're not educated. You're simply trained like a monkey.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Which is why I think this entire thread is absurd. Basically, the OP thinks schools should be judged by what sort of jobs they can open up. God forbid there's more to an education - like perhaps learning?
[/quote]
That's exactly why I'm curious about looking at entering SAT/ACT scores vs. departing GRE/MCAT/LSAT scores. It's really crude, but is an objective way of measuring learning, in the same way that SAT/ACT scores are crude but objective ways of comparing undergrad applicants.</p>
<p>"Which is why I think this entire thread is absurd. Basically, the OP thinks schools should be judged by what sort of jobs they can open up. God forbid there's more to an education - like perhaps learning? </p>
<p>If you know how to invest big sums of money, but not philosophically why or where to do so to increase the overall quality of life on our planet without causing destruction in the name of short-term gains (notice current economic quagmire as an example), then you're not educated. "</p>
<p>Brava.<br>
Anyway, the education I got at my school and the experiences I had were so outstanding that I don't really GAS if employers had or hadn't been impressed by the name. More to life than impressing other people.</p>
<p>I don't think colleges should be ranked and if they are, if should be taken with a box of salt (not a grain). USNWR is not a definitive list, it's more so like a Rolling Stone best of list. </p>
<p>you are allowed to disagree, and dislike any of those universities you want.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for most of your arguements, where I GO TO SCHOOL DOES directly points you to a career where 100% of our graduates are employed right away into the officer corps in the Navy and Marines.</p>
<p>A degree from my school will go farther than most because of the rigor that is involved when getting both a degree and commission as an officer into the armed forces.</p>
<p>I'm a CC person and I know tha UPENN is not even on the same level as your normal state school. Many employers out there do too. Converesely, there are many people out there who fit the stereotype of football watching average Joes. It's not always about making the most money or impressing employers. Sometimes, impressing that person down the street to watch their kid for the day is just as important as getting that high market job you're going up for.</p>
<p>-Good post to the person who said that your college shapes you mentally and physically. P.S. if you want to know how to invest, this trained money is your go-to guy.</p>
<p>In all, yes college is a means of securing good employment, in my eyes, and what better employment could you get by defending freedom?</p>
<p>^^^
Well, provided the assignments are actually defending freedom. It's such a crapshoot in the military depending on the administration and their motivations.</p>
<p>I was so close to joining the military after 9/11, but something told me to just hold off and see how things shook out. When the drums of war started beating for Iraq, I paid extraordinarily close attention with an open mind to try to understand why we were invading. Long before weapons of mass destruction got public traction, this administration was throwing out any reason they could conceive and seeing what would stick. When the White House Director of Communication was asked point blank why we needed to invade Iraq and he gave a 5 minute answer that never actually answered the question, I knew they were hiding their true reasons with lies. It was then I knew I'd made the morally responsible decision to disassociate myself with this administration's criminal behavior worthy of capital punishment for murder.</p>
<p>God bless those soldiers who can continue to sacrifice their lives over there long after all of the people in the administration involved in the build up to the Iraq War have flat out admitted the manipulation and lies. Seriously. God bless those soldiers. It takes more courage than ten World War IIs.</p>
<p>I'm starting to question the Naval Academy's admissions standards >_></p>
<p>I don't want to turn this into an anti-america argument or a political war, but I can think of a million different options I consider better employment than "defending freedom"</p>
<p>Adam, shut up. Please.</p>
<p>This reminds me of my late step-dad, a Navy officer, of whom I was very proud. He absolutely despised Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld for how they ruined <em>his</em> military which he loved. I know, little to do with this thread, but I was reminded nonetheless.</p>
<p>Beefs--you warrant an interesting insight...what are you implying by your statement?</p>
<p>If you're saying what I think you're saying, I bet I got into better schools than you did. Trust me, "defending freedom" has been instilled in me for a long time, or I'd be at Princeton, Dartmouth, Notre Dame or Tulane right now. There are plenty of cross-admits at the academies who choose to go about getting our degrees the hard way for something we believe is a good cause. My friend in my company turned down Yale and Cornell, and he struggled with grades last semester.</p>
<p><em>awaiting beefs response</em></p>
<p><em>gets popcorn</em></p>
<p>firstly, very insightful Jeydomz. I don't think I will take that into consideration though.</p>
<p>Secondly, I want to clarify that my previous statement was more to say that, personally ranking the navel academy highly because it leads directly into a job defending freedom is foolish. If it is your goal to do military work, than you should do exactly what you are doing, and it's good that you have passion for it. on the other hand, a school like the navel academy should not have an effect on rankings because it is so specialized.</p>
<p>
[quote]
navel academy
[/quote]
to study the war against belly button lint? :D</p>
<p>GoNavy--I think it's admirable what you're doing. I doubt anybody on this board or elsewhere would question the academic or extra-academic rigor of the Academies. You seem really defensive in your posts--do you encounter a lot of people who look down upon you because you're at the Naval Academy rather than UPenn? </p>
<p>Personally, I think the Academies offer a great experience, albeit one for a fairly limited group of people. Are the academics as top notch as the best of the best non-military colleges? I'm not sure...but I am sure that the overall experience offered at the military colleges is just as valuable.</p>
<p>We absolutely need our best and brightest to go into the military, so it's wonderful that you have joined the service. However, there are certainly other valuable life pursuits (and other ways than "defending freedom") than enlisting.</p>
<p>thanks abl. Yeah, it just blows me away how USNA and USMA are often left out of discussions that include the most selective institutions and the like. I get a lot of crap from people (especially from my high school) who say, "Why aren't you at Princeton?" Or some people who don't even know what the academy is will tell me, "I always thought you were college material, and now you're in the Navy?" I don't need personal approval from anyone to know that I'd rather go to my school than anywhere else. It's just disappointing that people neglect USNA and USMA in the college rankings because not everyone is pro-military or even realizes that level of academics here, or what else we do here.</p>