For anyone who has completed the IB Diploma program, did you feel that it prepared you well for college/university.
I had previously asked a question in this sub-forum about the “Theory of Knowledge” course, which I find fascinating. If something like this had been around years ago when I was in high school, and with several decades of perspective, I would have jumped at the chance to take a course like this. I didn’t get any responses to that, which is fine. My question now is broader.
ToK is just one example, but overall, was the IB Dip program worth it, for higher ed or even life in general? If it did help, were there any particular areas where it did like writing skills, analytic skills, more knowledge generally?
All thoughts welcome. Or, if anyone has any cites to articles/studies on this, it would be great to post them here.
A little late here, but for mine who completed the diploma (the other took a lot of IB courses), I would say it prepared her exceptionally well for college.
Not sure. I’m happy to ask her. I think the overall rigor of the program and its emphasis on writing was, I’m sure, helpful.
I recall her and some of her cohorts frequently mentioning a chem class from her sophomore year that was, at her school, notoriously difficult. The word is that many kids write back to that teacher to tell him that their college chem classes seem quite manageable by comparison.
I’ll respond again after I’ve had a chance to chat w/ her.
IB talk around these forums usually mentions the following about the IB DP:
High workload, which tends to train and/or select for students to have good study discipline and time management (which is generally helpful in college).
Relatively rigid curriculum and scheduling…
Individual IB high schools may choose what subjects to offer as HL (higher level) and SL (standard level). Prospective students should check whether HL is available in their areas of highest academic strength and interest.
Supposedly not too accommodating for highly advanced students in math and foreign language (who would otherwise be able to take the HL courses earlier than the usual schedule).
Advanced placement in college may be offered for high enough HL scores, rarely for high enough SL scores. Some colleges give a specified number of credits for a high enough overall score, even if there is not enough subject credit from the specific exams.
Some IB HL subjects are not as well matched to typical US college frosh courses as the corresponding AP subjects are.
@ucbalumnus and @cquin85: I really want to thank you for responding. I was wondering why nobody responded, but you both changed that!
I guess, as a parent, my real question is how the IB Dip program helps US students for college to the extent that it anticipates what our kids will learn in college. To give more perspective, I went to a hoity-toity prep school where we learned how to write and where we learned Latin etc decades ago. AFAIK, this was in advance of the IB program coming to US high schools.
To refine my query more, I am very interested in how the IB program might be a good predicate for the “pre-professional” or Co-op schools. Before I become a constant CCer, I used to think that the “classical” education in college was paramount. However, if IB already gives a significant taste of that, the heart of my question really goes to whether an IB Dip regimen covers much of what would be considered “classical education” and whether pre-professional/Co-op colleges are a better next step.
The Theory of Knowledge/ToK course in IB blows me away. From what I understand from DD and her discussion of ToK, I don’t think that I had anything like that. But, one of my favorite movies is Akira Kurosawa’s Rashomon, and that floored me when I first saw it. I guess that’s my ToK class equivalent! Rashomon - Wikipedia
If, for example, ToK opens your mind to the extent that Rashomon did for me, perhaps it makes great sense to focus on the practicalities of work in college rather than a pure “classical” education.
Funny you should mention Rashomon, as my IBD son wrote a paper on the film in his high school Japanese class and then revisited it in a college film course. I don’t think ToK was a highlight of my son’s IB education from his perspective, but I do think it provided an introduction to abstract thinking that has served him well in his college studies. My own perception of the benefits of the IBD are a little more prosaic - the program teaches kids to work hard and stay organized, they learn to do research and write at a pretty high level, and because the IBD classes run for two years, it enables them to study those subjects in more depth and figure out where their real interests are. My son’s HL subjects were Theater, Psychology and Biology. From that, he learned he did not want to focus on theater in college, but he is double-majoring in psychology and sports science (which involves a lot of biology/physiology). It was a tough program, and he was commuting three hours a day, but he does not regret it. I also think the colleges like to see the IBD.
That may be because, at US high schools that offer IB DP, it is the most demanding / rigorous curriculum / course option available at that high school.
US postsecondary outcomes (2020) - International Baccalaureate®. This link has some information about how IB DP graduates are more likely to enroll in and graduate college compared to the average US high school student. However, they are a self selected group of students who are high-achieving (I recall seeing they had an average SAT of 1380 from a survey).
In my family of four, I am the only one not to have an IB diploma or be pursuing an IB diploma. My wife received hers from UWC-USA. My S22 received his this past summer. D24 just started her SLs and HLs. As a spouse and parent, it is more rigorous than the AP. It requires more writing (which, can make you a better writer if you let it – I happen to be the best writer in the family, but then they are all STEM, and I am a lawyer). It teaches deeply, but not necessarily broadly. For example, my kids have little historical knowledge. Why? They were not required to take history. S22 took business. D24 is taking psychology. Their knowledge of history is weak and shallow (which pains this history major). Their knowledge of politics is weak and shallow (which pains this Master degree holder). They kick my butt at math and science.
Were they prepared for college? Absolutely. S22 is not struggling and is finding his early classes a breeze. Wife found college easy and was not challenged until med school. How about me? Well…I took eight APs…I also happen to be a Fulbright alum, so maybe not a fair comparison.
I am a big fan of the IB program. I would always put my kids in it and would not look back.
If they attended high school and college in the US, were they not required to take history and civics / government (not necessarily IB) for typical US high school graduation requirements are admission requirements at US colleges and universities?
With IB often being the most demanding / rigorous curriculum / course selection where it is offered in US high schools, it should not be surprising that there is a high-achieving student self-selection effect into IB.
This is a question I look forward to asking my IBD kid once their college freshman year is further along, as they are attending a liberal arts school known to be a grind. Along with having multiple ECs and a job, taking IB really forced good time management in high school so I hope those good habits will prove useful. They have already formed study groups in college…on the first day of classes!
I’m a IBD from decades ago, and I ended up attending my state flagship university because I got a full ride. IMHO IB was so much more rigorous than college ever was, and I was a STEM major. I was so bored my freshman year that I ended up mostly skipping classes and only showing up for the tests…still had a 3.8 GPA at the end of that year.
The IB program is very heavy in analysis and writing, as well as research using primary sources as much as possible for the extended essay. And because it requires taking classes across broad subjects, for the student who has broad interests it is fantastic. For the kid who hates math (or English or science or social studies) and won’t make the effort, then it’s not going to play to that kid’s strengths which may be better suited to a more pick-and-choose class load. Because, let’s be honest, the high school GPA is so critical to college admissions and merit aid. Which is a little sad to me since I think that high school is an important time to show kids the wide world they’re entering since college is going to be more focused on their major.
The IB and AP tracks at our school are considered pretty much equal in rigor, the biggest difference being that IB has a more rigid curriculum with minimal room for electives. Many high achieving kids at our school prefer the AP track because of the flexibility to take electives such as music or extra science.
I think it is school system-dependent. In Virginia, US History is an 11th grade course. IB students take IB History of the Americas (HOA) which covers the requirements + Mexican history.
In 12th, they take IB History Topics, which in our district is modern world history. It is very rigorous and writing intensive. HOA has one of the heaviest work loads of all the classes.
The full IB Diploma at our school is definitely considered the most rigorous option, but there are still a lot of AP classes offered if one wants to do that instead and it is a good option for flexibility. My D took IB French and English, both higher level in addition to many AP classes. She definitely liked and benefitted from the IB classes, but those were also her areas of strength, as she ended up being an English major. She had a very heavy reading and writing load in college, and I think her high school courses helped prepare her to do well.
My S did the full IB diploma as well as 7-8 AP classes, and I do think he preferred the IB classes. He did HL History, English and Spanish and SL math, psychology, environmental science (did AP physics, chem, lang, gov, econ, stats, world history). He also loved TOK. He has been quite prepared for college.
How is it possible to fit in so many AP classes on top of the IB schedule at your school? At our HS, the required components of the IB program fill up pretty much the entire schedule. They have enough space for 1 elective in 11th grade, and no electives in 10th or 12th grades (unless they drop language or science in 12th).
At our school freshmen are allowed to take AP world history if they choose. My S did that, and also took band in 9th and 10th grade. In 10th grade he took AP chem, AP lang, AP Econ (half semester) and AP Gov (half semester). The IB diploma program took up most options for 11th and 12th, but he decided to drop band because he wanted to take IB psychology. He was able to fit AP physics in to his 11th grade schedule and AP stats into 12th grade.