How will a bad junior year affect me?

Applying to College
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Throughout my high school career, I have tried to take advanced classes:

  • In my freshman year, i took AP Calculus AB/BC and got As in both classes. I ended the year in a 3.8 UW due to lack of preparation in my honors English and civics classes.
  • In my sophomore year, I took AP World, AP Bio, Multivar, and linear algebra and got As in all these classes. I ended this year very well with a 3.9 UW.
  • In my junior year, I moved to a different school. It was a completely different environment and I felt completely out of place. I took 5 APs this year: AP Comp Sci (A), AP Physics (A-), AP Statistics (B), AP US History (C+), and AP Lang (B). I felt very out of place in APUSH; it was definitely the hardest class I’ve taken and I felt very demotivated after failing each test. The more I studied for APUSH and Lang, I had less time for others. Even my regular classes (Spanish and Sociology) fell and I got Bs in them. I ended the year in a 3.1 UW - I definitely took too many APs.

My overall GPA is a high 3.5 UW (4.1 W). I feel like my chances for getting into highly selective colleges has now severely been limited. I have taken the SAT and got a 1530.

I put a lot of time apart from school into other things as well: I am the president of two different clubs and do a lot of volunteer work.

Do you guys think that colleges will factor in my junior year grades heavily if I am able to explain why I wasn’t able to perform academically on par and have done good on other parts of my application? Will good AP test scores help me prove that I do know the subjects well?

Looking forward to your response :))

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Start looking at the many, many colleges where you WOULD be a successful applicant. Sure, apply to a highly selective school if you so choose
but have a number of realistically attainable colleges on your application list.

There are plenty of very very successful people out there who didn’t attend a “highly selective” college.

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Yeah I am trying to get into schools in either CS or Physics. The top colleges in my list are nyu, umd, uva, uw madison, and purdue.

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Are you an state resident for any of those public universities?

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Not going to lie, and you seem to already know it, but yeah a bad junior year is not great. It doesn’t show the “positive momentum” colleges like to see if the story isn’t universally great. And the advice already posted to get excited about some schools you can achieve is good.

But don’t give up. Explain yourself in your essay and encourage your high school counselor to do the same in their rec. The colleges will see you had to switch schools and realize that is a big life change. Second, you must be talented in math to have been finishing AP Calc BC as a Freshman. Emphasize that. Have you done anything with it – clubs, activities, etc.? Have you tried to continue math outside of the HS curriculum at the local college or summer programs?

And focus on a great first quarter senior year. Show you have reset from your tough transition Junior year.

Good luck.

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You need to come up with a smart college list. I am guessing by your last name that you are Asian? In which case, that’s two strikes already.
My advise will be to look at high quality small LACs that practice holistic admissions. Those large unis you have on your list are meat grinders. I would not apply to those.
Another possibility is to apply to selective LACs that are for women. Smith and Sweet Briar are both excellent STEM schools.
I would also target STEM undergrad schools that are lopsided in sex ratio. Consider Rose Hulman, Rensselear type schools. They probably are not going to care about bad grades in humanities.
Your STEM achievements stand out, just be tactical about your list. All will be good!

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Please revise your profile name to avoid your identity.

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You have some very impressive elements in your profile, but your junior year grades will definitely hurt. I don’t think all hope is lost, but I would make sure to have a very balanced list of schools to apply to. What state are you a resident of? And what is your family’s budget? And does that budget line up with colleges think your family should pay (Expected Family Contribution (EFC) which can be found using each college’s Net Price Calculator)?

If a college isn’t affordable, then it should be eliminated anyway. Most schools are need-aware, so that might sway an admissions office in one direction or another, depending on what your situation is.

There are many very good colleges in the U.S. which would be thrilled to have you. If you need help in developing a balanced list of schools to consider, please let us know.

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Look on the bright side! You got an A in CompSci.

What does your schedule look like Senior year? I did not find your high school schedule very prudent so far, but you have one more year. Look forward with an eye for learning from your mistakes.

APUSH is a beast at my kids’ school too (as is Lang). A lot of kids get Bs in the class and 5s on the AP exam. You didn’t mention AP scores. Did you take the exams? Do scores match your grades?

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It’s interesting that you’ve had such a different academic experience at your new school. Can you say a bit more about your new school as opposed to your old school?

For instance, is the new school a private prep school, or a public school that is well-known in your state for its academic rigor? Is there grade deflation? Do you know your class rank?

All important factors for college admissions.

You can’t change the importance of junior year grades for college admissions. But, IF in fact you moved to a much more competitive school district, AO’s will probably already know this so no need to explain this to them. And yes, they would be impressed by high AP scores and a grade rebound in your first semester of senior year.

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Very, very true. There are also a few MIT graduates out there who work everyday alongside graduates from a very long list of good but not “top 100” schools, and no one cares where anyone got their degree. There are also quite a few students who attend good but not highly selective and not “top 100” universities for undergrad, who then attend highly selective universities for graduate school.

I would look closely at your in-state public universities. I would not spend time even thinking about anything on the “MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Caltech” level for undergrad.

Exactly. There are hundreds of very good colleges and universities.

One lesson to learn from this: There really are courses out there that you are not ready to take. When you get to university, look at the prerequisites for each class and look at the reputation regarding how tough each class is. You want to take a course load that is appropriate for you. You do not want to overdo it.

As one example, when I was an undergraduate student as a math major there was a math course that I just could not handle. I had to drop it. Then in graduate school quite a few years later, I took another course where the mathematics was very similar. I took a few hours on each of two or three Saturdays to go through the math carefully and fully understand both how to work through a problem and what it meant on a conceptual basis. Then I could handle it. Similarly for any student there will be some courses that they can handle when then are 24 that they could not have handled when they were 18. Both maturity and the other work that you do over the intervening years will increase what you can handle over time. Do not jump too far ahead too soon.

And yes, APUSH is a beast at our local public high school also. So is AP European History.

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So here’s a tepid (vs cold) shower:

Many many students find grade 11 a harder jump than they expect. Many many students transfer in grade 11. Doing both at the same time is harder.

And yet.

IME luck has a lot to do with who gets into “highly selective colleges”: students who were lucky enough that they matured early into the self-discipline that an exceptional HS career requires; who were lucky enough that they were highly self-motivated from an early age; and- most of all- lucky that they either didn’t hit, or were able to navigate, speed bumps or potholes on their way through HS. Potholes like death, divorce, relocation, illness, heartbreak, homelessness, school shooting, a genuinely bad/destructive teacher, etc. can derail even the cleverest, most self-motivated and self-disciplined student for a term, a year or more. And when that app comes up in front of an AdCom has to deny 90+% of their applicants, unfair as it might be, it is less likely to get through. Yes, sometimes an extraordinary story will ‘balance out’ a speed bump, but for every 16 year old who struggled to adapt to a new school there are those who didn’t.

I do not like this one bit. 14-18 is a tough time, with a lot of change and challenge, and the raw courage that kids that show just in showing up everyday and trying again is breathtaking. But, I am not in charge of admissions.

So for you, re-setting your expectations of what a “successful” college admissions season will look like is going to be critical. A student who excels in Calc BC in grade 9 has a lot of options. Move your focus away from the fancy names and look for colleges where you really like the program. There are some good suggestions upthread.

If your plan is to study math / physics / comp sci or some permutation of those, and if your family can afford it, look at international schools. In the UK, Ireland and the Netherlands they will look primarily (or only) at your AP results in the subject(s) that you plan to study. In many cases the undergrad program is 3 years (not 4), which might help affordability.

Take a look at the MAT (Maths Admissions Test | Mathematical Institute).

Also check out Oxford’s Math and Computer Science course: Mathematics and Computer Science | Mathematical Institute

If those look interesting to you, see if your family can afford it. With a 5 in Comp Sci, Physics & Math and a strong MAT score you would be likely to get an interview, and about 1/3 of people interviewed get offers.

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Yeah I am a state resident for Virginia.

Yes, in my senior year I am planning to take Differential Equations and Complex Analysis at a nearby university. I will try my best to get all As in senior year too.

What do you mean by meat grinders? I will definitely try to take a look at some smaller LACs though, are there any good recommendations?

Yeah I have gotten all 5s on my AP exams. This year went well too (hopefully).

Unlike my other school, we are on a rolling grade book, meaning that your grade is measured throughout the year instead of resetting every term or so. I found it really hard to adjust to this and it also meant that if you start out rough, you will have to work 3 times harder to get back where you where.

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OP you have a lot going for you - we can all see your potential. You just fell into the trap of taking too many APs at once along with a school change. Don’t let where you go to college because of your junior year grades define your success. Just do the best you can senior year and in college and I have a good feeling all will work out for you in the end.

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With your current weighted GPA of 4.1, I wouldn’t necessarily throw out your entire list of top choice schools. You have all 5’s on your AP exams and an excellent SAT score. Plus, one more semester to improve your grades and show growth from your junior year.

For some schools you may be better off applying RD, rather than ED or EA, if you want them to see your grades from first semester senior year.

BTW, my D21 was admitted to NYU with a 4.1 weighted GPA and an unweighted GPA that was only slightly higher than yours. NYU was a reach school for her, but she got it in and earned all A’s and 1 B during her first year there (certain NYU schools and majors have more competitive admissions, so definitely research that before applying). She didn’t apply to the other schools on your list so I can’t comment on those.

Don’t forget to round out your list with target schools and safeties. Good luck!

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I’m sorry you had such a tough time last year. You’re obviously very bright and motivated; there will be many good options for you to do well in college. Most likely, a 3.5 unweighted with a downward trend is going to take the most highly selective schools that expect a high level of consistency (both over time and across subjects) off the table. (Not to say you shouldn’t apply to a few, but the odds aren’t great.) But you sound like you’re aiming for a pretty realistic range of schools, and there are great schools that are realistic for you!

My first thought was already mentioned above: RPI. Rensselaer is a highly rigorous, STEM-focused school that is every bit as strong in your areas of interest as the super-elites. Their undergrad population is only 31% female and they are always trying to improve that. It’s not a school for the faint of heart, rigor-wise, but clearly you’re fine with rigor on the STEM side of things, and you don’t sound like someone who might change her mind and become a humanities/social science major! It’s a great school for CS and/or Physics. I feel like they’d be very happy to accept an applicant like you with a STEM-tilted record.

Rose-Hulman is another in this vein (if the rural Indiana setting works for you), and Colorado School of Mines is another, particularly if the outdoorsy Rocky Mountain setting would be to your liking. (Lots of great traditions, like this for example: School of Mines students are floating (and capsizing) cardboard boats on Clear Creek - YouTube ) There’s also Stevens in New Jersey, right across the river from NYC, and WPI in Massachusetts, and RIT in Upstate NY.

The other approach is just to aim for flagship public U’s that are strong across the board and in your areas of interest in particular, but not insanely selective. Plenty of opportunities to be the cream the rises to the top at such schools. That seems to be the route you’re taking with your current list. Worthy additions to that list would include U of Minnesota, U of Colorado, and U of Utah - all very strong in your areas of interest, and Utah has the advantage of allowing students to gain residency after the first year, which can save a lot of $ in years 2-4. Pitt would be a great one to throw in as well - their admissions are rolling, so you could apply in August and hopefully get an early acceptance under your belt in the fall.

I agree with others that you could also have admission success at LAC’s, but these may have more of an emphasis in the humanities and social sciences, once you’re there, than you would prefer; and you might find yourself in the minority as a STEM-focused student. Would you rather hang out with other CS/Physics/Engineering-loving students, or would you be happy having a lot of more liberal-artsy friends? What you prefer socially is a big factor here.

Lehigh could be worth a look - if you’re Asian, as people have suggested upthread, you’d be considered URM there. They have very strong STEM but also other areas of strength, and a more traditional social scene with a lot of Greek participation.

The UK/Netherlands idea is interesting too, if you’re comfortable going overseas.

If you look at the above schools and give feedback about what does and doesn’t appeal to you, that will help to refine the suggestions you get. Hope you’re getting some time to de-stress this summer, too!

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Thanks for the great suggestions! I would optimally like to be in a college that is close to the city. I want to be able to get internships/frequent the city more easily, so I’m not as interested in rural schools. However, they do seem strong so I’ll definitely take a closer look at them.

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Okay, so scratch Rose-Hulman, and probably CO Mines, although it’s not terribly far from Denver. Lehigh is pretty rural too (about an hour from Philadelphia and 90 minutes from NYC).

A lot of the other schools I mentioned are urban or urban-adjacent, though. Pittsburgh, Minneapolis-St. Paul, and Salt Lake City are all major cities with great opportunities for students, and Pitt, UMinn-TC, and UofU are right in those cities. (You might also look at UT-Dallas, which is a very strong STEM school with an every-growing reputation, especially for CS. Also, SUNY Buffalo, and tOSU in Columbus.)

Stevens’ campus has a direct view of the NYC skyline, and getting into the city is easy. WPI is in the small city of Worcester, and a 45 minute commuter rail ride from Boston. RIT is in the suburbs of Rochester. And while Troy, the city that is home to RPI, is nothing special, it’s less than 10 miles from the NY capital city of Albany.

Assuming you have the budget for OOS and private schools without needing big merit awards (which I’m presuming to be the case from you preliminary list), there are lots of great possibilities.

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I never suggest students try to explain a dip in grades unless there is a compelling story to go with it. I am sorry to say that I don’t think you have that compelling factor here because, as already mentioned, many students move and don’t necessarily struggle. If this is addressed at all, let the guidance counselor mention it. AO’s are going to see that you moved. They know that moving is hard. Why draw attention to what is a flaw in your otherwise great academic record? Believe me, they aren’t going to ignore what you’ve achieved.

I 100% would NOT make this the topic of an essay. I am sure there is something much more interesting about you than the fact that you struggled with APUSH.

Others have given good advice, such as making a good list and explaining that junior year grades are very important.

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A couple of things 
 I agree with @Lindagaf that you should not explain the dip in grades. It will come across as an excuse. If you write anything about being at a new school, it should be something you learned, not why you struggled.

Having a slump in junior year will not help you in college admissions but a strong senior year will mitigate some of it. Show that you’ve adjusted. Keep pedal to the metal because continued strength senior year will help you in RD and in coming off a WL if you end up in that place. Lots of seniors succumb to senioritis. Don’t be one of them!

You have learned an important lesson about balance in your schedule. Fwiw, my kid had a tough junior year too (and similar grading structure) as he killed himself in two classes that were high level and not in his wheelhouse, leaving little time for what he enjoyed and what he could do well in with a little work. But there was literally no time for that work given what was involved in the two hard classes. He never had another semester like that – in high school or college. Get it right next year.

If your only reason for wanting to be in a city is internships, re-think. You can get internships in the summer quite easily from any location. Some schools (RIT, for example) mix them into the program in work semesters. But you don’t need to be in school and working at an internship concurrently.

Yes, look at women’s colleges. Many LACs really want to enroll Asian students so think outside the box.

It’s clear you’re talented. Focus on what you like and where your strengths lie, and you’ll be fine. Really, you’ve got this!

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