<p>No school grants need in excess of the level of need determined by FAFSA? Is that what is being said here?</p>
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<p>What do you mean that HYPS use CSS to determine need? They may use CSS (and presumably FAFSA since they also require it) to get their numbers, but they certainly are using a formula different from that used by CSS, since their aid is more generous than both FAFSA and CSS?</p>
<p>Er, no. Schools can skew that by making sure that all students with low need get 100% of need met, and the high need students not. So both figures have to be examined. I will say that Lafayette is way up there in meeting need. But it is important to see what % of students get their need fully met. That percentage uses need as defined by the college itself.</p>
<p>Albright is as close as it gets, from what I have seen. It now guarantees to meet full need with respect to Tuition, fees, room and board, but not discretionary expenses for things like transportation, books, supplies, personal necessities even as defined in the COA. That is still extraordinarily generous. I have recommended Albright to a number of people who are looking for LACs with generous financial aid. I don’t know anything about Adrian, but will certainly check out the school. </p>
<p>No, Harvard does not meet full need to all of their students as defined by FAFSA. There have been students who have zero EFCs according to FAFSA, and Harvard has required them to make a student contribution. </p>
<p>However, I have read about cases where some of the top schools have gone above and beyond and given MORE than EFC, waived the student contributions and given in excess of COA for some students in extreme poverty. </p>
<p>I wish schools were required to also give info as to how they measure up in terms of need met as defined by FAFSA. That the need that is being met is defined by the school itself makes it difficult to compare how generous (or not) a school is that defines need with PROFILE or other methods, next to those schools that use the FAFSA EFC. </p>
<p>SoCalDad, no, I am not saying that. There are schools that grant aid in excess of the level as determined by FAFSA. In some rare cases the institutional method can come out with higher need than FAFSA. Some schools will have in their formulas that when this happens, the FAFSA EFC will prevail, but some do not. One of the more common examples of schools granting aid in excess to need determined by FAFSA is when the school allows a student to keep the PELL in addition to the aid package, which is permissable by federal laws. It is not permitted to give, say SEOGH, or any subsidized loans or work study when the need package is being met in excess of EFC, however. That is the way the feds have made the rules. So when an outside scholarship comes into the picture, and an aid package has those federal awards in it, something has to go–either those awards or the school grants. The most generous thing to do is to remove the self help, since the student can then just take out the Direct Loans on an unsubsidized basis as long as COA is not exceeded , and certainly can take whatever outside jobs when workstudy is withdrawn, with no regard to COA.</p>
<p>“It’s the average percentage of need met for students that have need.”</p>
<p>No…It’s the average percentage of need met for students that have need who ENROLL. There could be a whole bunch who got lousy aid pkgs who didn’t enroll. </p>
<p>“No school grants need in excess of the level of need determined by FAFSA? Is that what is being said here?”</p>
<p>No, that’s not what’s being said.</p>
<p>THIS is what was said: "No school guarantees to meet full need according to FAFSA "</p>
<p>Just looked up Adrian College. it may be in the same situation as Albright in that the Common Data has not yet been compiled for any full need met policy enacted since only 6% of the kids got full need met. It filts the profile of a number of small schools where nearly everyone gets financial aid. 94% apply for aid. 95% of those who apply for aid get aid and 100% of those who qualify for aid get it, but only 6% get full need met. The average need met is in the 70% range, however. Albright’s profile does not show their new aid policy, nor does their NPC reflect it at that time, but it is right there on their fin aid page.</p>
<p>I don’t remember if HPY uses CSS PROFILE, SoCalDad2. There are schools, and they may be some of them, that have their own supplemental aid application in addition to FAFSA. Most all schools require a FAFSA in addition to any other apps (usually the PROFILE for those schools asking for another fin aid app) so that federal aid can be obtained and used in the package. Though HPY does not include loans in their packages, they do give out Federal Work Study, SEOGH and PELL money, and most of the time integrate those awards when they can with their own aid. </p>
<p>CSS PROFILE does not really have a set formula. It 's just an application, and schools that use it can use whatever formula they please with the info. Some schools will not use the home equity value for primary homes just as FAFSA does not, some will cap it at 2.4X income, some at 1.2X income, some will use the whole value, as an example. Some will include the values of automobiles owned, and even qualified plans. They may have different ways of assessing family owned businesses. Some give credit for siblings of the student in private schools and programs. The FAFSA EFC, however, is formula calculated, though schools can do what the want with it. But federal aid tends to get dispensed very much in a consistent manner with exceptions granted through professional judgement. </p>
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<p>The number of schools that meet need (whether defined by FAFSA-only or otherwise, and whether for all students or any non-merit-scholarship subset like state residents) with $0 student contribution is probably vanishingly small. Harvard’s net price calculator indicates that it expects a $4,600 student contribution even for a student with maximum financial need and $0 parent contribution according to its own methodology.</p>
<p>"There have been students who have zero EFCs according to FAFSA, "</p>
<p>And Harvard may expect them to pay a LOT. </p>
<p>A student may have a 0 EFC because mom makes very little money, but NCP dad and new spouse make a LOT of money. </p>
<p>My CSS and fafsa have been done. And ik for a fact both guarantee to meet need by hearing it from the mouth’s of financial aid councelors while standing on campus. And lehigh 50% of student receive need based aid. The other 50% either didn’t qualify or didnt apply.</p>
<p>Did you run each school’s net price calculator to get a preliminary estimate?</p>
<p>A school may meet need, but define “need” differently from what you expect.</p>
<p>“And lehigh 50% of student receive need based aid.”</p>
<p>The fact that 50% of students (or even more) receive need based aid does not mean that they meet need.</p>
<p>I am completely aware</p>
<p>Omg ik!!! They meet need because I’ve been there three times and they say they meet need!!! </p>
<p>Just because they say they meet need doesn’t mean they pay everything you expect. Omg you need to understand how they are defining need. Remember merit aid is counted toward your aid. </p>
<p>bman…</p>
<p>Ok…</p>
<p>What is YOUR need? and how are you defining what YOUR need is?</p>
<p>First of all, once you have sent in your paperwork, certainly the FAFSA and PROFILE, you sit and wait and see what comes back from each school. You have your FAFSA EFC? That pretty much, in your case, from what you have said, represents the likely MINIMUM you and your family will end up having to pay if all you get is financial aid. If you get merit awards, they generally reduce need first, the way it works, so unless you get enough that leaves less than your EFC to pay the school, you still have that EFC to pay. You can’t get any federal aid until that EFC except for PELL for which you do not qualify. Many schools also structure their financial aid rules so that the same goes for their grants. </p>
<p>Not that it’s necessary for the schools to do that Schools that use PROFILE nearly always come up with a definition of need that is not as generous as what you get from FAFSA. What such schools generally come up with for what they expect you to pay, is more than that EFC. They take the trouble and have you and your parents take the trouble to fill out another form and pay for that privilege, if you recall, so that they can define their own need figures, and that is what they try to meet. Some schools do guarantee to meet that need figure that they define fully. Lehigh does not. I will call Monday and out and out ask the director of financial aid if they guarantee to fully meet need as they define it for all student, if you so please, or do it yourself. They do not do so. Look at the Common Data set for Lehigh and you can see what % of kids at Lehigh got their need fully met. The data will tell you right out how many of their enrolled students qualified for need by Lehigh’s own definition, how many got aid and how many right down to the number of kids got that need 100% met. </p>
<p>I had always been under the mistaken assumption since I never eyeballed the numbers that Lehigh was more generous with financial aid than Lafayette was. The numbers prove me wrong. Lafayette DOES guarantee to me full need, right on their fin aid website to all students who meet their definition of need AND who make all of the deadlines they give. In actuality, between 80-90% of all kids who qualified for need by Lafayette’s calculations got their full need met, which is an impressive %, right up there, one of the best I’ve seen, but not 100% as at some schools. Clearly, some kids met the definition of need but missed a deadline and did not get full need met. This is one school I would highly recommend meeting those deadlines. Yes, some kids were gapped.</p>
<p>What the statistics do NOT tell you, however, and what is ultimately more relevant to YOU, OP and to each and every student and parent, however, is whether a school meets the family definition of need. If your family tells you that they can contribute $20K for college, that they would come up with that money somehow, through loans, current income, and savings, that means that if you want to go to a school that costs $60K, YOU and the school has to come up with $40K regardless of what the need formula says. If that school formula says you have to pay $50K, and they give you only work study and loans for that $10K that they shave off the price (and, yes, I have seen this A LOT from some selective schools high on the rating and wish lists) that can mean they have cut off a lot of your DIrect Loan options and working hours during the school year, and you and your parents have to some how come up with $50K and your parents have said $20K is what they can do. That’s what’s called an unaffordable school. And, yes, it can be a school that guarantees to meet 100% of need for all of its students, which, by the way, Lehigh DOES NOT unless they just changed the policy this year and have not said so anywhere.</p>
<p>Look, you are fine applying to where ever. Maybe your ship will come in laden with fin aid and scholarship goodies or your parents will pull some money out of their hats. But just in case this does not happen, and yes, it often does not happen, make sure you have some schools you know your family can afford with no contingencies. Maybe it’s your state school. Maybe a local private has some awards it guarantees to give local kids with a certain GPA. Maybe commuting to a local state school is the answer. But make sure you have a couple of those on your list. If you get something you prefer that you can afford, fine. It’s good to have some control over you options by having some sure things on your list.</p>
<p>I am only a small sampling of one but Lehigh met our EFC need much better than other schools who said they met 100% of need as they determined. I do not want to contradict what Lehigh says on their website and I had a child they wanted. Lehigh did have student loans as part of the package. I think they say now that they eliminated loans for those who income is lower than $60,000. </p>
<p>This is just my personal experience. The hard part is not knowing. I remember how hard this part was. Waiting, not knowing and really no idea how the chips will fall come April 1. </p>
<p>We dot have a defined need. I am completely aware every school define need differently I was never confuse about that.</p>
<p>bman…</p>
<p>Who filled out FAFSA? you or your parents?</p>
<p>I suspect that your EFC may be wrong. Both parents work, your dad is an ass’t principal, you have college funds, there’s only one going to college, yet you say that your EFC is only $17k. </p>
<p>Maybe retirement contributions weren’t added back in. Maybe all the college funds weren’t included. maybe some other mistake. (if each child has a college fund, I think they ALL get included on FAFSA).</p>
<p>It’s Saturday, your dad is home, please ask him how much the family can pay each year towards college for YOU.</p>
<p>Deb922, then congratulations for being one of the families who did get full need met. The figure was 48.4% for freshmen in the 2012-13 school year. Was your FAFSA EFC close to what Lehigh considered need? From what I have seen in aid packages, they don’t usually say what your need was calculated to be by the school formula. They just list what you are given. I wish stats were given as to what schools give out based on FAFSA EFC. A school can define need in a stingy way and look like they are meeting it better than a school who defines need more generously and then doesn’t meet it as well. It depends on what that need figure is, and by using EFC as the standard, we can truly see which schools are more generous than others.</p>