How would a triple major impact law school if I wanted to go into ROTC?

Graduate School Law School
1

Hey everyone!

Before you start reading, I’d just like to state that if I the questions I ask appear naive, I do give my sincerest apologies but only ask them either out of mere desire to seek the best possible answers here on CC. I’d greatly appreciate it if you could take the time to read through my questions as you’d be doing a great service to someone who really wants a better understanding for their future.

With that said, I’m currently a junior in high school that’s contemplating going to law school and joining the army under the ROTC program. Coming from a low-income family, doing ROTC makes sense for a number of reasons. First, I know the army can probably cover a good majority of college expenses that I’ll be needing to pay; and secondly, I also know that by joining ROTC, I’ll probably be building a decent resume for myself out in the real world after my service in the military: such as when I am seeking job employment and can display that I was an officer in the United States military; from what I understand, the perks that you can demonstrate leadership skills and reliability to mean a lot to employers.

For high school, I’ve established this year that I want to major in political science due to my fantastic experience from partaking in the Youth in Government club at my high school; in fact, I can honestly say that I feel drawn to politics and really think that both law and government are topics I’m passionate about. So, political science makes sense. And if your concerned if this was the only thing that drew me to political science, it wasn’t. I’ve also been a part of Model UN (Member), Debate Club (President), Academic bowl (A Team), and apart of Youth in Government that all have contributed to me forming my aspirations. As far as college is concerned, I’d really like to pick the most appropriate majors possible for whatever I decide to go into (which will likely be politics or law) and want to know how this will effect law school.

As far as my desired majors are concerned, a senior friend of mine who’s going to Brandeis University (also wanting to pursue politics) strongly recommended that I take political science (for political education), philosophy (for argumentative skills) and economics (for economical knowledge and background knowledge) if I wanted to pursue my interests and still maintain a strong background: a triple major. If I were to actually consider his advice and partake in ROTC, how would this effect me should I still decide to go into law school? Would I be going to college for 4-5 years, and would there be implications with a triple major if I wanted to become a lawyer after ROTC and my 4 years of education?

Thank you!

2

Others can address the three majors part of your post-although it seems pretty difficult to pull off and not helpful with LS admissions.
But let’s address ROTC: things may have changed since my day, but it used to be that, assuming you get an ROTC scholarship-and they are extremely competitive-it was good for 4 years-period. If you needed a fifth year, that was on your dime. And it was, years ago anyway, that if you didn’t finish in four years the military, at its option, could either let you do the fifth year(to graduate) or order you to active duty as an enlisted member immediately at the end of the four years. And it used to be that you had to report your progress toward graduation on a semester basis, and the military would get very concerned if a ROTC student appeared to be having trouble graduating in four years. So you should check, as it’s a four year scholarship, not five year.
Second, if you are planning on attending LS after graduation, there is no guarantee that the military will let you do that. They may order you to active duty immediately after graduation-or they could allow you to attend LS, although that attendance could be on your own dime(there is a separate scholarship program for LS, separate application, etc). So it will depend on what your plan is whether it works for you or not.
And the triple major will only affect ROTC if it takes more than four years, and having a triple major will have a negligible, if any, effect on your law school applications.

3

A triple would be extremely difficult to complete in 5 years, on top of your ROTC courses. More importantly, a triple of of no value to Law school admissions.

Colleges offers many more courses and disciplines that you are exposed to in HS. Take some survey courses in different subjects, including poli sci and philosophy, and see what you enjoy.

4

Getting a triple major and meeting your ROTC requirements will be difficult to do.

I’ll talk about Army ROTC because I am more familiar with the program.

There is a mandatory summer “camp” between junior and senior year. You will have to find classes either before or after your summer camp cycle if you want to knock out academic requirements at that time.

There is now another summer camp that is required between freshman and sophomore year. While it is “required”, I hear that there is an option to waive it if you want to do other things like study abroad for the summer. Let’s assume you don’t get a waiver. The summer between freshman and sophomore year will be tight in fitting in classes if you had to attend that summer camp.

Of course, my assumption is that you will want to maximize summer classes to knock out triple major requirements.

Also, do you want to attend law school after ROTC (and before serving your military commitment) or after serving your military commitment?

If you want to attend law school right after college, then you can request to get an educational delay to go to law school. The odd policy is that when you’re done with law school, you may not assess in the Army as JAG officer. You may be an infantry, armor, quartermaster, etc officer. This policy is unlike those who get an ed delay to go to medical school. So long as you pass the 3 steps of your boards and get a license, you will assess as a medical corps officer.

I don’t think the Army will make a brand new law school grad be something else other than a JAG officer, but they will tell you upfront that it’s not a guarantee.

If you want to go to law school after serving some time as an officer, then there is the Funded Legal Education Program (FLEP). The Army selects active duty officers to attend law school on the govt dime. My personal opinion (not experience) is that Army officers get a slight advantage in getting accepted to top law schools for a couple reasons: 1) just as you mentioned above, by being an Army officer, you’re demonstrating leadership skills and reliability (among other good traits) and 2) your education is paid for through the FLEP program. That doesn’t mean that you can bolo the LSAT and get a low GPA and expect to get into a T14 LS just because you’re an officer with a blank govt check. You still need to get good scores and a GPA but what you bring to the table to LS adcom is unique.

5

Thanks for the responses! Question though,

“The odd policy is that when you’re done with law school, you may not assess in the Army as JAG officer.”

Can you elaborate what you mean by this? Essentially, does this mean after army and I complete undergrad and lawschool, that I can not apply to be a JAG officer while I’m working with the army? That was my initial plan, but I never knew there was such a policy if I’m understanding that right.

Edit: Sidenote, the FLEP program is only 25 officers… isn’t that competitive?

6

You can definitely apply (you’d be crazy if you don’t) to assess as a JAG officer after law school. It’s not a guarantee that you will branch as a JAG officer though.

I don’t have the stats but my gut is that if you apply, then you will be branched as a JAG officer after law school. Just know that it’s not a guarantee.

Unlike law school grads, you’re going to be a medical corps officer after med school so long as you pass the boards and get a license.

By policy, I mean the “no guarantee” piece. To me, it should be policy that law school grads assess as JAG officers just like medical school, dental school, optometry school, etc grads.

I personally know of an Army officer who is a personnelist (human resources). We communicated by email. I noticed on his signature block that he had JD behind his name. I asked him why he has a JD after his name and he’s not serving as a JAG officer but instead as a human recourses officer.

He told me his story…

He was on active duty officer and then got out. He went to law school as a civilian. He tried to get back into the Army as a JAG officer but the Army told him no. The Army said if he wanted to come back as an officer, then he can come back in another branch. He decided to come back into the Army in a branch other than JAG. Apparently, the Army met its quota for assessing JAG officers the year he applied to come back in.

You never know how many lawyers the Army needs in a particular year.

7

Put simply, the standard once you are commissioned:
The best interests of the Army.
So even if you’ve gone to LS, the Army may still decide it needs you in another area.
That was true when I was in years ago, and is true now. The only exception would be if you were FLEP(and yes, that’s an extremely competitive program; the only Fleppers I knew had been officers for several years before applying and being accepted. I knew of no Fleppers who went right from college graduation to LS; all had at least three years active duty service. And keep in mind FLEP incurs additional pay back time).

8

@Delcore

In case you didn’t know about FLEP, then here’s a pretty good article about it:

http://m.fortcampbellcourier.com/mobile/news/article_822f2e4c-5826-11e5-84a7-4f70fcf72393.html

The Army does not offer any scholarships for ROTC cadets to go to law school. The only way to get the Army to pay for LS is through the FLEP- and even then you must have served 3-4 years on active duty to apply.

This is different for doctors. The military has the Health Professions Scholarship Program for anyone (ROTC, service academy, civilian) to use for med school in return for a service obligation. Many ROTC and service academy grads use this scholarship after graduation to attend a civilian medical school.

9

ROTC and Service Academies exist to commission line officers. NROTC is the route to Nurse Corps but that is the exception. The excess of lawyers means that the services can be picky when choosing JAGs. You could always serve your initial commitment after ROTC and then go to law school as a civilian if you don’t get FLEP.

10

Thanks for the elaboration information everyone, I really do appreciate it! I have another question: What about the post 9-11 GI Bill? If I wanted to go to law school, would the post 9-11 GI bill give me decent coverage for my education? Better yet, are there any other bills similar that the military has that I could possibly utilize?

As a side note: I’m probably just going to go along with Politics and Economics after reading Chicago’s posts. Perhaps 3 majors is a bit over-ambitious.

11

Back up. Sure, poli sci, philo, and econ. But what makes you think you need to major in all of them? Take classes, pick one. You can continue with upper level classes without needing to declare all 3.

Next. It’s an election year. Think about getting involved in a campsign as a volunteer. School clubs are not real world.

12

The post-9/11 GI Bill is an excellent way to pay for an education.

The baseline tuition benefit right now is just under $22K for private schools. The post-9/11 GI Bill will pay the in-state rate for public schools. You also get a monthly housing allowance while you’re in school (read: not during the summer when school isn’t in session) that is equivalent to the basic housing allowance (BAH) of an E-5 (Army sergeant) with family members. This rate varies depending on where you attend law school. Obviously, the rate is lower if you’re attending law school in West Virginia, for example, and higher if you’re attending law school at Georgetown or Howard.

Some law schools participate in the Yellow Ribbon program as part of the post-9/11 GI Bill. In this program, law schools will contribute additional funds to the student (and the VA will match that amount). The Yellow Ribbon program (assuming you are eligible for 100% of post-9/11 GI BIll benefits) goes a long way to paying tuition at law schools. In essence, you want to pick a school that participates in the Yellow Ribbon program if you plan to use the post-9/11 GI Bill.

You didn’t tell me what state you live in so I will use IL as an example for how the post-9/11 GI Bill would work.

The tuition of the law school at Northwestern is about $60K (can’t believe someone would pay that to be known as an ambulance chaser…but I digress). The post-9/11 GI Bill will pay $22K because that is the “base” benefit. You have to pay the difference of $38K ($60K-$22K). However, the law school participates in the Yellow Ribbon program and will contribute $15K. In addition to that, the VA will match it. So now you have another $30K toward tuition just because Northwestern participates in the Yellow Ribbon program. So take the $22K post-9/11 GI Bill benefit + $30K Yellow Ribbon program and you have $52K toward tuition. The remaining $8K is out-of-pocket for you. Not bad for a Northwestern Law education!

As for the monthly housing allowance, the BAH for an E-5 with dependents living in the zip code (60611) for Northwestern law is get this…$1923. That’s $1923 PER MONTH classes are in session you get for housing allowance. I think that’s huge- especially if you’re single.

Let’s do another example and use the University of Chicago because you want to get into a T14, right? I’m not a lawyer, so the only thing I hear about “good” law school is this concept of T14. I know there are very good law schools not in the T14 but seems like the law profession is stuck on T14.

The tuition of the law school at UChicago is $57K. The basic benefit of the post-9/11 GI BIll covers the first $22K of that so $35K is the difference. As luck would have it, UChicago Law also participates in the Yellow Ribbon program. Unlike Northwestern Law that contributes an additional $15K (and the VA matches with another $15K), UChicago Law covers the rest of the tuition. Basically, using the post-9/11 GI Bill to attend UChicago Law will give you a tuition-free law education.

Using the zip code (60637) for UChicago Law to calculate your monthly housing allowance comes to the same as Northwestern - $1923/month.

So, at UChicago Law, tuition is free and you will get $1923/month in housing allowance. In addition, you get up to $1000/year in books as part of the post-9/11 GI BIll benefit.

Hopes this makes sense. I don’t know of any other programs you can utilize for law school.

Not sure the triple major is necessary. If you really feel compelled to do multiple majors, why don’t you major in poly sci and minor in philosophy and econ? Or major in poly sci and minor in philosophy and take some econ courses.

Again, I’m not a lawyer so not sure the best courses of study would be to become an ambulance chaser. :))

13

Maybe it’s me, but as OP is a HS junior, it seems that we’re getting way ahead of ourselves. These are all programs funded by the government, subject to dramatic change on short notice. For example, the GI Bill has had some dramatic ups and downs since WWII, so a current HS junior would be well-advised to not count on it existing in its current iteration.
OP: I’d strongly recommend, at this point, to take a step back and focus on college. Once you’re in college, you can decide if you really want to attend LS.

14

Anything more than one major-whatever one’s goal- is a waste of time and money. It’s very rare to actually use one’t liberal arts major in one’s career.

15

1° The Army is not a scholarship program. Its goal is to train officers. MANY first year ROTC students are now without a scholarship since too many enrolled just for the scholarship and couldn’t stick it out. So, a few get a scholarship for freshman year but many have to take a risk and hope for a scholarship sophomore year on. Scholarships are VERY COMPETITIVE and you’d need to apply Summer/Fall senior year.
Keep in mind that you may not be allowed to defer for law school.
2° If you’re very low income, there are excellent colleges that meet 100% need, provided you’re academically strong enough: Middlebury, Hamilton, Kenyon, Skidmore, Colby, Pitzer, Davidson, Holy Cross, Brandeis, Dickinson… are a variety among those, which you may not have heard of (but law schools know them well.)
Look into Questbridge (income up to 60K or so) and Posse. Write down their deadlines.
3° In college, you don’t have to major in everything you’re interested in. You won’t even ahve to decide until you’re done with you first two or three semesters. Keep your mind open, see what interests you among your general education classes, what you’re good at. Law School does not require any specific major but they do require you to be at the top of your class in whatever you chose. So you could choose philosophy or environmental science, it doesn’t matter, what matters is your being at the top of each class to maintain a high GPA and a high major GPA. Those grades + your LSAT score will help you get into law school. (The LSAT supposes some philosophy and English classes but doesn’t require a major in those.) Strong experiences, such as TFA or a business job, can help your application - not all, if not most, attend Law School after working for a while.
Basically, you’ll take abou 1/3 of your courses in a variety of classes that ensure you’re well-educated. These classes will include English, Philosophy, History, Economics, Political Science, Foreign Language… Then about 10-12 classes are in one major, structured in a specific way to ensure you have both depth and breadth in that area + have acquired the approach and methodology. Then you get about 5-10 “free” classes that can be anything you’re interested in (a mix of anthropology, music, statistics, etc, whatever strikes your fancy, or extra classes for your major, or internship credits…) or a minor (typically a group of 4 required classes + 2 classes of your choice in one single subject).

16

Not unless it has changed dramatically since I took it.

OP, you have a lot of useful info above about the military route, but I want to go back to the getting ahead of yourself piece.

  1. You are at least 4 years away from applying to law school.
  2. IF you actually still want to go that route in 4 years time what the LS's will look at first and foremost are your GPA and your LSAT. *They will not care what your major is.*
  3. Picking a major / major(s) b/c a friend told you it would be good for LS is simply a bad plan. There is a world of difference between high school classes and college courses, and often a world of difference between a college major and the actual jobs that people go into. So apply as a prospective major in whatever you want (or apply undecided, as about 1/3 of students do) and take classes in the things that you think you would like to study in-depth. If the college that you choose has a lot of GenEd requirements, work with your advisor to ensure that you sample classes that will count towards those. See what you do well in: you may find that you love philosophy and loathe econ- or vice versa. You may find that you like politics but don't like PoliSci as an academic subject, but you love history. Or Art History. Or Portuguese. Whatever. What will matter to law schools is your GPA and you are much more likely to end up with a high GPA in a major you love than in one you are taking b/c somebody else (who has no more info than you do) thought it was a good idea.
  4. IF (and ONLY if) all three of those subject areas sound interesting to you, [url=http://ppe.nd.edu/links-to-other-ppe-programs/]here[/url] is a list of colleges that offer PPE (Politics, Philosophy, Economics) or similar as a single major.
  5. Good for you for thinking ahead, and working out different scenarios and possibilities. It's a really important process. Just don't get too set on a specific path yet. You are *at least* 2 years away from making this decision. Remember spring of Grade 8, when you were imagining what HS would be like? this jump is at least as big, and your brain is growing and evolving just as fast now as it was then. So keeping asking questions, keep exploring options, but try not to get too fixed on one.
17

I never took a philosophy or English class in college and did well enough on the LSAT to get admitted pretty much everywhere I applied.

Pick 1 major: something you like and is marketable.