@Dunboyne I will! Thanks for the advice.
I think this is the final list. Any fewer than this and I would get a little antsy.
-Bowdoin (ED II?)
-Brandeis
-Brown
-Carleton
-Colorado College- EA
-Harvard (Dad will not relent)
-Oberlin
-Tufts- ED I
-Chicago- EA
-Vassar- (ED II?)
I’m visiting my mother in CO in August and will visit Colorado College then. I will also make the trip to Brunswick and Poughkeepsie at some point in August. If I am not accepted EA to CC, I’ll add a few “safer” schools (like Rochester). If admitted to Chicago I’ll toss the Brandeis, Oberlin, and (probably) Vassar application.
Good list and application plan, based on your preferences. Prioritize the applications. I know the CC supplement can get fairly involved, designing a block plan course, as can the Chicago essays. It’s good that you’re getting those apps out of the way early, but you’ll still want to consider how much time you spend on them. I don’t really see you ending up at CC. It fits, culture-wise, but it’s not mentioned often in discussions of ‘LACs for CS’. But I get why you’re applying (mom). Chicago is a long shot even with EA, due to its admit rate and SAT M scores. I’m not saying to not apply to these two schools; just watch how much time you sink into the apps, in lieu of getting a decent start on the other apps.
It’s not often I say this, but I think your list could use another reach. I know I said to narrow things down to ~8 schools, without getting too reachy, but you’re going with ~5 matches, which is sufficiently safe considering you already have NEU in the bag. Plus, the make-up of your reaches is an issue.
Bowdoin is a solid possibility for admission. Chicago and Harvard, though, are always going to be tough for you. Then you’ve got two schools at which you’ve already been denied. That’s fine. I get why you’re applying to all of these schools. Tufts and Brown are probably the two best fits for you in terms of culture, plus their CS is solid. Maybe your odds are better a second time around, maybe ED will help, maybe not. Point being, I wouldn’t know what to make of your odds for those two schools (you’re in a ‘jackpot’ situation).
So as I see it, you only have one reach that doesn’t have something significant that is stopping you from getting admitted (other than “selectivity”, in general). Tufts and Brown have a precedent denial; Chicago and Harvard are just plain brutal, due to admit rate and SAT M selectivity. Apply to all of them, sure, but think about adding another reach where admission is a tad more “likely” or conceivable.
I’d suggest having a look at Swarthmore. Small odds of acceptance, yes, but their 25th percentile SAT M score is significantly lower than Chicago/Harvard. Swat is known as academically intense, but I don’t think it’s much more cutthroat than Chicago/Harvard. It’s not exactly bohemian, but it’s intimate and academically outstanding. A few posters on here have said that the CS department is excellent, very close-knit and supportive. Swat has similar scores to Brown, but you’d have slightly better odds because of higher admit rate, 4x fewer apps, more self-selecting applicant pool, your first time applying – providing you can find something about Swat that you really like and communicate it in the supplement/interview. (Maybe you’ve already researched and excluded Swat.)
Amherst would be another choice, but I’m not sure how the CS department compares. Amherst has the benefit of having your (favorite!) state flagship nearby, for extra CS courses. Swat has a similar arrangement with Penn. Swat (vs Amherst) claims that ECs are slightly less important, and they don’t consider “particular talent/ability” as important.
Fit is definitely important (small class size, LAC-feel), however some of these schools are ranked lower than Northeastern in CS (Tufts and even more so Brandeis) and are less selective than NU overall.
Here is the graduate school CS rankings from US News. (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings) There is no undergrad rankings, but this will give you a pretty good idea of how the non-LAC’s stack up against each other. NU is 60th, Case Western in 70th, Tufts is 70th, Brandeis is 82nd. Harvard and Brown are a clear cut above the rest at 18th and 20th.
In terms of overall selectivity, Northeastern is #35 in the country in terms of SAT/ACT average selectivity (1390, 31.5). On your list that puts them above #59 Brandeis (1350, 30), #66 Colorado College (1325, 29.5), #51 Oberlin College (1362, 30), and tied with Vassar (1390, 31.5).
(http://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2014/08/04/top-100-sat-scores-ranking-which-colleges-have-the-brightest-kids/)
I am not suggesting you get rid of these school, but if the point is to go to a school that is a better fit and also a better school in generally it might be worth setting your sights a little higher.
I am surprised there havent been more mentions of RPI. Thats seems to be a great fit for you in terms of strong CS program, ability for you to get in, and more intimate setting. Cornell would also be significantly more in reach (and better at CS) than some of the schools mentioned.
@swimchris - the US News rank is not particularly effective for evaluating smaller Phd programs or programs that have changed in the last 20-30 years. If you look at the methodology, it is more of a familiarity/reputation poll of a population of people who last formally evaluated a couple of Phd programs when they applied to them 20-30 years ago.
The more reputable ranking is the NRC (National Research Council) rank created by the National Academies (as opposed to a consumer magazine). It is a data driven ranking based on a huge data collection effort done around 2005. It took another 5 years to compile the data and refine the methodology. The results tend to correlate pretty closely with US News for the larger, more familiar programs, but not for the smaller programs.
Based on the NRC rankings, Harvard is at the top, Tufts and Brown are statistically indistinguishable NU is next and Brandeis is next.
Harvard 3-19
Tufts 23-61
Brown 24-59
NU 47-94
Brandeis 92-116
But this is a rating of Phd departments based on 10-year old data. Some departments may have changed and Phd rank may or may or may not correlate to the quality of the undergrad program which depends as much or more on teaching quality than research quality. One also have to take onto account the fact that some programs are more theoretical (better for a career in academia) and some are more applied (better for a career in industry). Then there is the issue of class sizes - Harvard’s intro to CS course has 900 - 1000 students in it… Then there is the fit issue on top of that… All in all one has to be careful in the importance attached to rankings.
http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124721/
Here is a user interface for the NRC data that is a little easier to work with and allows you to manipulate the weighting factors in the rank.
http://www.phds.org/rankings/computer-science
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/1613591-usnews-vs-nrc-r-vs-nrc-s-rankings.html
@swimchris Rankings, particularly graduate school rankings that would not include many of the LACs I’m looking at by default, are of next to no use to me. I do not believe I would be happy at Northeastern, and thus, would not be as successful. Also, I really don’t think I’m in a position to set my sights higher (CMU? Not happening) given my curriculum and scores.
RPI is about the right size, but I’m not sure what else about what I said I want in a school that would possibly suggest I would like RPI.
@Dunboyne Yes, I’m not expecting much from Chicago. I thought I might as well try. Plus, I think their supplements are fun to write. I know I’ll be rejected from Harvard, but I’m a legacy, and one of the conditions of my taking a gap year was that I needed to apply.
And yes, for the record, I will most likely not end up at CC. I would at least like to tell my mother I considered going to school close by.
I visited Swarthmore about a year and a half ago and it seemed…dour? To me, it felt like students didn’t seem particularly happy or friendly. It was a gloomy day, so perhaps that soured my outlook.
Amherst has very good CS, and of course, has access to Umass Amherst’s great program. I’ll look more into it to see if it’s a social fit. Funnily enough, Bowdoin, two states away, is a shorter drive.
I’ve also been looking a bit more into Middlebury. I know they’ve been expanding their program for the last few years- does anybody else know more about their program? I would think this would constitute a “safer” reach considering I’m at the top end of the mid fifty percent for both the sat and act.
“I’m at the top end of the mid 50 percent”
Your 2230 SAT would put you in the top quarter at Middlebury (as it would at most schools), at least in terms of their most recent consolidated class. (Middle range: 1940-2200; class of 2018.)
@merc81 Oh, I must have been looking at the wrong data! Thanks for clearing that up!
@merc81 when I look at the CDS for Middlebury’s class of 2018 I come up with a high end of 2240. This still puts the OP in a good position, just not quite as good.
@urbanslaughter: I used a Middlebury “Class Profile” site for that year (“Testing Profile of Enrolling Students”). Perhaps the OP had used your source as well.
Just saying Reed’s computer science “program” is under the math department, and Reedies have a good presence in tech, especially physics and math grads who choose not to go to grad school.
(Btw, doesn’t Middlebury’s CDS add to 2220?)
The data for the class of 2019 (just updated) lists the SAT mid-50% range as 1930-2240 and ACT 30-33.
http://www.middlebury.edu/admissions/start/profile
Regardless, I think it would be safe to call Middlebury a low reach, yes?
It looks like the latest admit rate is 19.9%. Some folks argue that all schools under 20% are automatically a reach. Your scores are solidly a match, near the top quartile overall, so I’d call it a high match. If you want to be safe, sure, call it a low reach due to admit rate.
If you want to add another school and it came down to Middlebury vs Amherst, if you’re ok with the CS offerings at both, if you’d be happy at either, then Mid is obviously the better bet. You can afford more risk, IMO, but it’s not a bad idea to average down your risk if Amherst isn’t providing you with anything that you really desire, over Mid. If it is, then sweeten the pot a bit.
Sorry to be such a pedant. Middlebury’s latest admit rate is 17%, not 19.9% (not sure where that came from).
@urbanslaughter --the 19.9% rate comes from Middlebury’s own website.
It’s interesting–according to a press release issued in March, the college admitted 1,512 students from an applicant pool of 8,894 (or roughly 17%). According to the class profile posted just the other day (http://www.middlebury.edu/admissions/start/profile), the college admitted 1,768 of 8,892 (or 19.9%). Either the yield was unexpectedly low this year (necessitating taking 256 students off the waiting list, which would be VERY unusual for Midd), or there’s some other explanation (like the numbers in the press release don’t account for Feb admits). I’d be interested in hearing why the numbers are so different.
Wo-hoo- 2016 common app is open! I’m loving the essay questions I’ve been reading so far. My favorite is probably one of Brandeis’: “There is a ticket in your hand. Where are you going?”.
I’m 86.4 percent sure this is my final list. Papa finally relented in regards to Harvard. I don’t think I would have been happy there even if my some miracle/terrible mistake I would have gotten in. Thanks for coming along for the ride, anyone who’s still sticking with me! I added Smith as another low match; you never know. From least to most selective, from a purely percentage-wise perspective:
-Smith (I’m a fan of the consortium and I liked it much more than MoHo)
-Brandeis
-Oberlin
-Carleton
-Vassar
-Colorado
-Tufts (ED)
-Bowdoin (ED II? Probably, at this point)
-Amherst
-Brown
-Chicago (at this point they’re included mainly because their essays are bucketloads of fun to write; there’s virtually zero chance I’ll be admitted here).
I’ve been doing a lot of research into the breadth of the curricula of the LACs I’m looking at, because I don’t want to fall in love with a school that has an inadequate curriculum.
@ucbalumnus (feel free to tell me if I forgot anything if you feel inclined to read the whole post) so helpfully provided a list on some other thread I was looking at at “have to have”/important classes that a CS program should have. I also consulted the Liberal Arts Computer Science Consortium’s guide to a complete curriculum in CS at LACs. Here are their requirements.
Ucbalumnus:
The school should have regularly-scheduled courses in:
-Algorithms
-Lang.
-Compilers
-Databases
-Networks
-Security
-Project course
-Electives (AI, graphics, etc)
LACS’ requirements:
Intro: A sequence of at least 2 into courses
Core: Computer organization, algorithms, software development, languages, theory
Electives: Language processing, AI, etc
All of the LACs fulfill the requirements between these two lists, except for security- several colleges did not have a course for security.
The LAC on my list that fulfills most of the requirements is Carleton. No gaps and tons of electives, considering it’s size. Really great curriculum. Just wish it was closer to the east coast or my mom in CO.
Colorado College has the smallest program of all the colleges on my list. It does not have a compilers course or a security course. However, the block system means that I will have plenty of opportunities to take all the classes I need to, since their are seven “periods” a year as opposed to two at colleges on the semester system.
Both Vassar and Bowdoin had an excellent curriculum and really, really interesting electives (nature-inspired computation, machine learning, etc). However, I want to look more into the frequency of course offerings, particularly at Bowdoin.
Amherst had a few gaps (notably operating systems; compilers was offered in Spring 2014 but hasn’t been since then). These are gaps that could pretty easily be filled with some upper level courses at Umass, which is a great opportunity. Amherst also has the standard electives (AI, graphics) and a gaming course (could be interesting).
I could get a pretty complete CS education at all of these LACs, but it would likely be richest at Carleton, Vassar, or Bowdoin. I’m doing some college visits this week so I’ll have plenty to think about. I’ve been to CC, and I’m trying to go to Tufts (again), Bowdoin, and maybe Vassar (it’s a heck of a drive, though- about four hours) before I go to Spain. Just wanted to put this out there for anyone unsure that an LAC could offer a complete or quality CS education. There are definitely ones out there with a better program (Williams comes to mind, as does Harvey Mudd, which of course would not be an option for me), but these ones have the best combo of fit & program for me.