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<p>Every year the admissions rates for the colleges you are talking about goes down. If you’re not up to the level that the alumni you know are you might have some trouble getting in.</p>
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<p>You are very condescending. When you interview at the colleges you want to go to you better tone down the attitude. They won’t like it.</p>
<p>Thanks mmmcdowe but its very rare for Flatbush alumni (the high school I go to), to get accepted to Columbia, they tend to get admitted to Penn, Wharton, NYU etc. And Pea I appreciate the criticism, since unlike most people all you did was politely criticize and you weren’t cynical. I appreciate that. But granted my condescending remarks, I still go by my adage that Ivies are nevertheless a reach and are not guaranteed admission. I’m not suggesting snootiness to the point where I actually thing I’m getting in, in fact its highly equivocal and I truly doubt whether I will even be granted the privilege of being deferred or waitlisted.</p>
<p>Your response was so nice now I feel bad. Columbia is a great school. With your focus on what you want to study I don’t even know that you need to attend an Ivy, any university that offers the kind of program you are looking for will work.</p>
<p>Jacob- if that is the case then why not break that trend rather than feel restrained by it? I’m the second person from my undergrad, at least in living memory, to attend the medical school that I am now at. It can be done.</p>
<p>Of course, I definitely stand out from the usual crowd and community stereotype of going into business (The Jews in my community all go into business, hence much of the application and admission to Wharton). But by all means mmdcdowe, I definitely plan on breaking the trend. In a sense, the entire college admissions procedure is a distraction or more of a “game” for me I guess.I plan on going into neurosurgery, which plants me in 18 or more years of studying. 4 pre-med, 4 medical school, 1 intern, 5-7 residency, and 2-3 fellowship. Nobody in my community has ever pursued such a long-term goal; whether because of the amount of time, the harsh admissions procedure, the competition, and the hard living standard (at least during residency). Btw, if anyone happens to know a neurosurgeon or can give me advice on how they actually support their family by means of a 30k-50k income (during residency), I’d be on Cloud Nine.</p>
<p>1) Don’t have a family, or have a wife who can support you during residency
2) Accumulate debt or enroll in programs to stall your buildup of debt until post residency
3) Live cheaply
4) Military or community service
5) Borrow from family</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry about this stuff at this point in the game. You could go the money route and go to a less prestigious university for undergrad on scholarship/partial scholarship. If you’re really lucky and pack a good resume, you can do the same in medical school too. I wouldn’t worry too much about planning so far ahead. Wait until medical school to decide what you really want to do, and don’t forget to live for the years you have until you finish training. If you don’t, you’ll probably be worse for it both personally and in terms of your competitiveness as an applicant.</p>
<p>Also, NYC neurosurgery residencies tend to be 50k+, compensates for some of the living costs at least.</p>
<p>My suggestion is you focus on schools that excell in UNDERGRADUATE education for your undergraduate career. In neuroscience both Whitman College (WA) and U of Rochester (NY). I realize Whitman may be a stretch for a lot of east coast students in terms of location and small town, but the attention undergrads receive from full professors in every class is astounding and valuable for research opportunities and graduate school. When you begin your college search look for schools beyond the name brand, or those easily recognized by most folks. Good luck and do enjoy the time you have right now!</p>
<p>Lol mmcdowe thanks, but its rather hard for me at this point to stop thinking…and neurosurgeons are actually becoming a medical school trend there are so many nowadays so I’d have to go to a less populated state or city than NY or NYC, unless I happen to become an exemplary student (99 average, 4.0 GPA in med school). And you’re saying I shouldn’t get married till I’m in residency…that’s a good idea I guess but it will be kind of late, no?
Thanks DIrene for those colleges and don’t worry about the east coast thing, I plan on applying to almost all of California’s Universitys and Stanford (as reaches of course, I’d never get in). I hope I’ll be able to do what you said, come the admissions process…</p>
<p>My Jewish roommate, a graduate of a Jewish day school just outside of NYC, tells me that there are, as of the last 4 years that she knows of, no students here from the Yeshiva of Flatbush.</p>
<p>She knows at least 1 who got into/goes to Columbia, though.</p>
<p>My point is: don’t immediately discount a school simply because few people ever get in. If that’s your attitude, you probably shouldn’t apply to any Ivy. By the time you’re a senior, they’ll all be in the single digits.</p>
<p>Let me clarify: JHops is absolutely not an Ivy. It’s easier to get into (in terms of selectivity, it’s a cut below the Ivies and that tier) but arguably harder to do well in, particularly if you’re doing pre-med, which 80% of the students there are doing. If you really want pre-med and don’t really care about the intellectual side of a liberal arts curriculum (literary analysis, philosophical debates, reading the New Yorker) then JHops would be a great choice, because if you do well during your undergraduate career there, you can get into any medical school in the country. You also have the best opportunities to perform undergraduate research of any school in the country. So while JHops isn’t an Ivy, and is a tier below them in terms of selectivity, it might be a better choice if it plays to your strengths (scientific research and premed). It’s a little like UChicago in that respect.</p>
<p>I agree with pwoods about John Hopkins. As a point of interest it was offered a spot in the Ivy League when the league as being formed but turned it down. Anyway, it is a great place to go for pre-med.</p>
<p>okay, i am gonna snub this in the butt.</p>
<p>there was never an attempt to include johns hopkins, uchicago or any number of universities into the ivy league. this is the story of myths. the ivy league is an athletic league that dates to 1954 (with a preliminary formulation in 1945) and a name that only dates to 1930s. it was then that schools of the present 8 (minus brown) banded together and wrote a joint Op-ED calling for the ivy league, and the earliest record of any agreement between the 8 is the amplifcation of the Big Three Agreement between HYP in 1945 (see “Ivy Elevens Band Under Rigid Code” NYTimes 11/21/1945), and officially formation of the league in 1954. (of note: the teams did compete in the heptagonals as seven teams minus brown who later joined in track and other sports before a conference existed.)</p>
<p>the legend usually goes with “[great school that is probably part of the UAA], was invited to join the ivy league, but decided against joining.” this is just not the case - ivy schools had participated athletically against each other since the 1870s before most universities had sporting programs let alone did major conferences exist and through heps had in basketball and track developed a loose athletic arrangement). of the few schools that can kind of claim to have ‘almost been’ in the ivy league would be rutgers (they willfully joined another conference before the Ivy Group even was formed), and army and navy that compete with the ivies in some sports, but for the most part remain independent.</p>
<p>i think that most people should realize/recognize that yes johns hopkins is and has always been considered a top school. a better indicator than whether it is or not part of an athletic league: it was a founding member of the association of american universities (one of 14), a body of research universities that consist of some of the most influential places of learning in this country and home to some of the most important discoveries. though not the exclusive barometer of educational excellence, research is certainly one of great importance.</p>