HS GC completely unfamiliar with Common Data Set

Parents Forum
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<p>Wow, I went to college night at DS's hs the other night. The GCs each gave a presentation, starting with general hs graduation requirements, moving into requirements for the CSU and UC schools (we are in CA). Maybe I expected too much, and probably the presentations were geared toward parents just beginning the whole college thing, but I was flabbergasted at (1) how California-centric the discussion was, and (2) how completely ignorant the GCs were about the CDS. I could easily have concluded that no colleges at all exist outside California. And possibly no private colleges exist within CA. And they didn't clearly indicate where to go for general info, like entering freshmen GPA, or 4-yr graduation rate, or 25%-75% SAT range, and defined "average" as half of students above and half of students below (isn't that the median?). I asked after the presentation whether they were familiar with the CDS and got blank stares. I love the CDS-- great for making spreadsheets of info to easily and quickly compare schools.</p>

<p>Anyone out there with similar (or other) experiences with somewhat unenlightened (or narrowly focused) GCs?</p>

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<p>The CDS is relatively new so that isn’t all that surprising and when you are presenting to a large group of people, throwing out too much information at one time is just overwhelming. It sounds like it was an “introduction to college” meeting and probably targeting the majority of the audience that will go to CA state schools. For added information, I would say that individual meetings with the GC are what people should do–or have another meeting for those interested in private schools and/or out of state schools. Our school has basic info meetings and then a couple that are more specific toward “lottery schools” and one for recruited athletes. Not everyone will be interested in those so why bring them up at a large meeting?</p>

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<p>It sounds like the presentation was being given to the audience at large. Since your students are california residents; there is going to be emphasis on the UC and CSU system along with private schools located in California with the mind set that every one will be able to be admitted to a college that are academically and financially sound for the family. S/he would be remiss if these options were not discussed. Our presentations start with CUNY/SUNY as a base because using a bottoms up approach, the student/family will find academic safeties and matches that are financially feasible options. We also talk about State aid and opportunity programs (which are of no use to my school’s population is they attend school outside of NYC/NYS)</p>

<p>Remember that the population on CC is no where near the norm as far as college bound students are concerned (the majority of kids go to school locally). I agree with Steve regarding all of the information on the CDS. It can be overwhelming to tackle at college night as the majority of the audience will walk away not understanding what had been said. </p>

<p>I teach a college advisory class and I use well over a month, to cover the the information on CDS, IPEDs, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ (which is a much more user friendly tool if you are making spreadsheets because you can down load the information into excel) and other information to my students where they have to do the research on this list and present to ensure that they understand the information.</p>

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<p>Don’t California kids fill out something similar to a common app for the publics? I thought i read somewhere they check the box for all the places they are interested in.</p>

<p>BTW, after my first boy went through this in 2006/2007 I never went to those “into” meetings at the high school. As SteveMA says they are just for very general “check the box” type info. In general though, our GC are focused on our very good public schools and regional LACs for the most part. There’s literally a school for everyone in Michigan. California has an extensive CC/CSU/UC system that will fit the vast majority of kids.</p>

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<p>I am lucky enough to live in an affluent neighborhood on Long Island, with one of the higher ranked school districts.</p>

<p>I have NOT been impressed with my son’s HS guidance department. After the relatively short time I was researching schools and the admissions process, I was astounded at how much more I knew than they about the colleges in general, what should be done and when to do it. It was a real eye opener when my son’s counselor, a veteran of at least a decade, could not add any value to our efforts.</p>

<p>The icing on the cake was when they had trouble with their automated electronic admissions system and wouldn’t manually send out any transcripts for Early Decision / Early Action until it was fixed. They were insisting (falsely) that all colleges and universities needed the data electronically. </p>

<p>I confirmed my son’s first choice could accept paper. Then I insisted his guidance counselor manually submit the data for my child. </p>

<p>All was fine for us, but not so for countless others. Hurricane Sandy caused havoc with everything very soon after that. Bottom line: scores of kids missed ED deadlines!!.. even though many schools extended the deadlines for our area. Sure, no one could foresee Sandy, but the guidance department was already in a race between fixing the automated electronic system and the ED deadlines. </p>

<p>After the debacle, they told all the parents of these kids that no harm was done. Many of the schools have ED2 and general admission wouldn’t start for a couple of months!!! Talk about arrogance!</p>

<p>I’ve come to the conclusion they have their hands full between the lowest 10% of the school, who cause problems… and the lower half of the school who are just happy to get into ANY college or university.</p>

<p>If your kid is smart and does well, it’s really up to the parents to make sure they do all the right things to make their kid’s wish list happen.</p>

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<p>I agree. There was a thread started in the fall about GCs and how mediocre they are. We are our children’s GCs. It’s better that way I think. The process of college admissions is far too important to leave to someone else.</p>

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<p>@syb. Thanks for the website. The CDS can make me crazy sometimes. Much appreciated!</p>

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<p>Most GCs in the large public schools are simply overwhelmed. There are so many students with a wide variety of different needs. It is very dificult to be a master of all the CCs, state Us large research Us and LACs. Parents really have to advocate for their kids. Thank goodness for CC.</p>

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<p>“Maybe I expected too much …”</p>

<p>Me: What College Search books would you recommend?
GC: I don’t recommend.
Me: Well which ones do you have available in the Guidance Office?
GC: We don’t have any books.</p>

<p>I’ve ceased being surprised. Survey the Guidance Dept (as you’re doing) to determine what available resources may assist your student. Everything else? You need to supply that.</p>

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<p>I would have concluded no colleges exist outside IL if I relied on my kids’ GC. Forget about their ignorance; do it yourself.</p>

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<p>well, i’m not sure why you thought that they wouldn’t be california-centric? california has one of the best public university systems in this country. if they didn’t mention any of the state’s private options, then that’s another issue…</p>

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<p>I went to a meetings the other night, and we spent 45 minutes discussing recycling and all it’s details. Imagine a general parent meeting and then getting into CDS. </p>

<p>Coma making time. You lead a talk to the majority of your audience.</p>

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<p>Sure, I expected a discussion on CA schools, but what I meant to convey was that there was absolutely no mention of opportunities outside CA. And the kicker is that most of the UC schools, and the better CSUs (like Cal Poly SLO and SDSU) are extremely difficult to get into these days, so in a way the discussion was not really aimed at the audience at large. So many kids in S’s hs are applying OOS now, because they have little chance of getting accepted into the in-state system that is supposed to serve them. One of my older S’s friends (hs class of 2012) got accepted nowhere in CA but fortunately was accepted at 3 OOS schools (one of which he is attending). My generation could get into SDSU with a 2.8 GPA. Now it’s a 3.8-- maybe.</p>

<p>But I digress. I think the GCs could at least have given an overview of the flavor of the schools, eg Cal Poly for engineering, UC Merced for life sciences, that sort of thing. I guess the problem really lies with me-- I’ve learned too much from lurking on CC over the years.</p>

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<p>I went with both kids hoping for information that was different than I already knew. No luck. The GC are simply overwhelmed in public schools with preventing drop outs and the one time I did need to go to the GC for a schedule problem, I waited in the waiting room with 2 kids also there ahead of me - one was crying her eyes out about something personal, and the other was there for fighting. I went about the schedule because word was that if a parent does not advocate for their kid for a scheduling of classes nothing happens, including a teacher or kid plea. I am glad I am over with this. I always felt sorry for the kid who’s parents either did not know or did not want to help (let them handle it themselves) or did not care.</p>

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<p>Dont’ be so quick to judge, until you’ve walked in their shoes. The simple fact is that vast majority of California public high school kids will matriculate to a California public college. Ignoring those would be GC-malpractice.</p>

<p>On top of that, parents have a much higher sense of where they think their kids should go and what their kids qualify for. Much better to start from the ground up. Our HS GC, for example, tells everyone to apply to the local Cal State, so they are guaranteed and early acceptance. Safety, done.</p>

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<p>Uh, no. CP-SLO also has a top-notch architecture program, as well as ag sciences. And business. And Education. Merced has nothing worth going for, and was a financial mistake… :)</p>

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<p>Umm, sure SDSU has been difficult for years. OTOH, most CSU’s accept nearly all comers in their local catchment area. Which SHOULD be the focus of the presentation. IMO.</p>

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<p>Literally, “nowhere,” or just nowhere he wanted to attend?</p>

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<p>There is a UC application and a CSU application. Students who want to apply to more than one in each system just check off the additional campuses (and divisions/majors) and pay the extra application fees.</p>

<p>Each community college has its own application (put in some basic identifying information and you are admitted, though getting into overcrowded classes is another story).</p>

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<p>Seems like your son’s friend did not select any safety schools among the California schools s/he applied to.</p>

<p>It is true that the “better” UCs and CSUs are much more selective now than a few decades ago, since the population of California has grown faster than the capacity of the universities. A few decades ago, more than half of the freshmen at Berkeley were placed into remedial English composition courses; that placement is now under 10%.</p>

<p>But not all of them are super-selective for all divisions/majors. Here are the thresholds for San Jose State (and note that there are a few non-impacted CSUs that admit everyone who meets baseline CSU eligibility):
[Info.sjsu.edu[/url</a>]
Note: CSU eligibility index for freshman applicants is calculated as follows:
<a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>GPA Calculator | CSU](<a href=“http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html]Info.sjsu.edu[/url”>http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html)</a></p>

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<p>Our local high school is small and the GC’s there are undereducated, overwhelmed and don’t seem to give a flying fig. Friend’s children are all high achievers although three are twice exceptional. She’s on kid three now and the GC have yet to get it right. Transcripts are sent late, scholarship deadlines are missed and accommodations are disallowed because of late reports.</p>

<p>The only way the two oldest got into college in timely fashion was because friend insisted on hardcopy transcripts and mailed them herself. Now the school has Naviance and refuses to give parents copies. Several schools are still waiting on transcripts and friend is beside herself.</p>

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<p>Wow, just wow. What is it that you feel makes the GCs at your local high school undereducated? In most states, one must have a graduate degree in school counseling as the first step to licensure. </p>

<p>Do you even know what are the primary responsibilities of a school counselor (and no it is not college)</p>

<p>[The</a> Role of the Professional School Counselor - American School Counselor Association](<a href=“http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?pl=325&sl=133&contentid=240]The”>http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content.asp?pl=325&sl=133&contentid=240) </p>

<p>Do you believe that you have the educational background that makes you are qualified to do the job (just wondering)? </p>

<p>The lets kill the GCs because they are useless grows tiresome, even though I know that you are not talking about me. It is easy to talk about how you did everything for your 1/2 kids (even if you have gone through the process multiple times, you have only done the process for 1/2 kids at a time). How many of you really think that you can do this process for a couple of hundred kids year over year along with all of the other responsibilities that come with the job (and college counseling is no where at the top of the list). </p>

<p>Sometimes there are things much more important than explaining the CDS (which I can do very well thank you very much).</p>

<p>Can you -case conference, do IEPS, perform mandated related services counseling, program students, keep track of a couple of hundred students, making sure that they are programmed for everything they need to graduate, program them for all state testing. Do you know how to certify students for graduation? Can do mandated reporting and all of the paperwork that goes along with it.? What are your experiences dealing with courts, probation officers, ACS workers, parents with no-contact orders who still feel that they have the right and access to their kids. How many runaways have you dealt with? How many referrals have you had to do for rehab, home instruction, inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment services ?</p>

<p>How many times did you have to break the news to a student, that in between the time they left their house and the time they got to school that their parent had died? What do you say to your senior class when one of their own died 4 days into the school year after you just saw them the day before? Have you ever had go to the girl’s bathroom to find your student bleeding because the boyfriend broke up with her and life as she knows it is over? Did you have kids crying in your office because they received a likely/early write letter and others crying because they did not?</p>

<p>Do you run advisories, individual and group counseling sessions, conduct college and financial aid nights? How many times have you picked up the phone or e-mailed your regional admissions rep to let them know that Johnny Inc. would be a great fit for your school and why he should come off of the wait list and have it done? How you had to sit with your student, ask them to break confidentiality in order to advocate for the best thing for them. Believe me when I tell you that there is nothing new under the sun in day high school and I have pretty much seen it all.</p>

<p>There are times when, it can be a pretty thankless job where you have kids and parents deal with you from a perspective of what have you done for me lately. But you know what, through all of the good and bad days, I really like what I do. I have been to many college graduations, weddings, funerals and christenings where I was the only “family member.” </p>

<p>So at the end of the day, if you feel that you can do everything that your school counselor does, feel free because they could use the help.</p>

<p>Stepping off soapbox. Will try to smile and nod at the next bashing. Yeah Syb, smile and nod…</p>

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<p>Disappointed? - Yes. Surprised? - Not so much. After our college info nights a few years back, I had to email a link to the GC with FAFSA ballpark calculator. </p>

<p>The GC were telling families, “apply to a variety schools and see what aid and scholarships you receive”. It’s a fairly affluent hs, and many families could have quickly determined that they were past the max for need-based aid with one in college (but maybe would get aid with 2 in college.) </p>

<p>Hopefully in CA they did mention WUE/WICHE Western schools website. (Our CO GC downplayed it because “there are restrictions on programs, GPA…”) [Western</a> Undergraduate Exchange (WUE) | Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education](<a href=“http://www.wiche.edu/wue]Western”>Save On College Tuition | Western Undergraduate Exchange (WUE))</p>

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<p>Syb: Not bashing GCs as a whole, just mentioning one specific instance. My daughter’s GC at a different school is amazing.</p>

<p>One of the GC’s in question is a part time coach. My understanding is that this placement was done a few years ago during budget cuts as a way for him to keep his job. It’s possible he has the proper credentialing. His lack of knowledge on basic in state rules and regs suggests a lack of professional development. I would call that undereducated. FYI the financial director of the district does not have a masters in finance and worked their way up through ranks.</p>

<p>You work in NYC, I’m speaking of a small rural high school with it’s own set of substantial social problems. Maybe in a good year 50% will go to college. I believe the number taking the SAT was 49% for the last few years. Class sizes are less than 200 but say in a banner year, 100 kids want to go to college. That’s 50 per GC. Yes, that’s still a lot of work, forms etc, but it’s no reason to consistently miss deadlines. My friend’s son missed his accommodation for SAT because the forms never arrived. Son also missed out on a very large scholarship for the same reason. Friend’s children are not the only ones to have this experience. </p>

<p>The mom in question handed everything to GC filled out and all GC had to do was fax the paperwork along with a transcript. It never happened.</p>

<p>After friend’s oldest went through this, she approached school with an offer to help. Friend is well educated and a seasoned volunteer. She was told no due to privacy considerations.</p>