<p>This month's Wired magazine has an article about a group of four high school kids from Carl Hayden Community High School (92% Hispanic) in West Phoenix, AZ. It's (at first) an uplifting story about how a computer science teacher brought together a group of four unlikely kids (former gang member, etc) to build a robot for a national underwater competition sponsored by NASA and the Office of Naval Research). The teacher entered them in the highest level of the competition with the thought that it would be better to lose to a set of colleges than to other high schools. </p>
<p>In the competition was the entry from MIT, with 12 students - 6 ocean-engineering students, 4 mechanical engineers, and 2 computer science majors. Their robot was sponsored by ExxonMobile and the total cost was $11,000. The Carl Hayden HS kids had persuaded a group of local businesses to donate $800 and constructed their robot from materials they got from Home Depot. At one point, they used tampons to soak up a small leak in their housing. When they showed up with their robot, they got lots of snickering from the crowd.</p>
<p>To make a long story short, the kids won the design elegance award, the technical documentation award, and then won the overall competition. The experience and the passion led to academic achievements as well.</p>
<p>A good story, right? But it continues: the kids have lived in Arizona for 11 years, but were born in Mexico and are undocumented aliens. Thus they don't qualify for Federal Loans or other financal aid and are also not even eligible for in-state tuition in Arizona. Two of the kids have graduated from HS, but now work as labors. The families can barely support themselves, let alone raising up to $50,000 required for an out-of-state cost.</p>
<p>The full article will be available on wired.com after March 31st.</p>
<p>too bad they don't live in washington state</p>
<p>
[quote]
In 2001, California and Texas were the first states to enact legislation allowing in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants. New York and Utah followed suit in 2002. In 2003 and 2004, Washington, Oklahoma, Illinois and Kansas enacted similar legislation. Legislators in 18 states (Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Massachusetts, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, & Wisconsin) have debated bills with comparable criteria for eligibility. The enacted state legislation generally requires that students have resided in the state for three years, graduated from a state high school, received notification of acceptance to a public college or university and signed an affidavit stating they will file for legal immigration status.</p>
<p>The Arizona and Virginia legislatures introduced bills to provide in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants and to restrict illegal foreign nationals from attending a public university or college. Both bills are still pending in the Arizona legislature. Virginia's Governor Warner vetoed House Bill 2239 this past April, which would have prohibited any post-secondary education benefit including in-state tuition for any undocumented immigrant. Similar legislation is also pending in the Alaska legislature.
<p>Arghh. This article hurts. I hope the kids consider applying to MIT next year and that MIT admits them with a full ride. It would be sweet.
BTW, I know one of the MIT kids on the ROV team.</p>
<p>Isn't the "real" story that neither MIT nor any of Ivies (etc.) offered them admission, or helped prepare them for it? Think of the huge publicity "win" they could have gotten out of it, and for very little money.</p>
<p>All of these states that allow in-state tuition are circumventing Federal Law (cited above):</p>
<p>
[quote]
From the website cited above: These state laws attempt to circumvent the federal law by simply not asking students whether they are in the US legally. (The California law, AB 540, requires the student to file an affidavit that he/she has filed an application to legalize his/her immigration status or intends to file an application as soon as he/she is eligible to do so. So California doesn't even attempt to maintain the fiction that the school is unaware of the student's immigration status.) They also circumvent the law by basing eligibility for in-state tuition on attendance of an in-state high school and not on state residence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Federal law says that a state cannot offer in-state tuition to an undocumented alien without allowing in-state tuition for all US citizens, even out-of-staters.</p>
<p>It's not so easy as that. Federal law says that a university cannot grant financial aid to undocumented students and illegal aliens."</p>
<p>Sorry, digi, but you're wrong. The law simply prohibits STATES from offering "in-state" tuition rates to undocumented aliens, and a score of states have found rather simple ways around that, as Emeraldkity points out. But nothing prevents Harvard or MIT or any of the privates from doing whatever they want.</p>
<p>U.S. Code as of: 01/06/03
Section 1623. Limitation on eligibility for preferential treatment of aliens not lawfully present on basis of residence for higher education benefits </p>
<pre><code>(a) In general
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not
lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the
basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for
any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of
the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an
amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen
or national is such a resident.
</code></pre>
<p>A post was here for a minute, then disappeared, but it did bring up a good point to think about. It basically said that "undocumented" is a euphemism for "illegal." And do we want to give benefits to those here illegally? It is a good discussion topic.</p>
<p>yes it would be-
I know Reed provides financial aid to international students that they especially want- and I don't see anything preventing a well endowed school like MIT offering aid to students who clearly are very talented and motivated to succeed- no matter if they were born a US citizen or not.</p>
<p>That article was riveting, and I was expecting a happy ending. To hear that one of these kids is hanging sheetrock now? Really sad.</p>
<p>Important to remember, I think: each of these "undocumented" kids came across as minors with their families. Their parents are the ones who broke the law, they didn't. </p>
<p>I'm hoping that someone who reads the article will pony up the money for their college expenses. And that it will foster some new debate on the difficult public policy issue of access to public higher education for the children of illegal aliens. I know it's a tough issue; you don't want to punish children for the "crimes" of the parents, and it's to the state's benefit to turn these kids into educated, contributing, taxpaying adults; on the other hand, if cheap public higher education is a limited good, is it ethical to displace the children of taxpaying citizens so students like these can attend?</p>
<p>Your issues are exactly why I posted this. The questions are quite complex. But as in every complex issue, when it comes down to what happens to particular individuals, it's hard to keep the larger questions in mind.</p>
<p>as I mentioned on another thread I know of a girl whose mom is an illegal alien (in Ca.) She went to college about 7 or 8 years ago, I guess before the law changed in Ca., and was given a full ride in Nebraska.</p>
<p>This may sound simplistic, but why can't anyone help these kids become "legal"---sponsor them in some way to the end of giving them a legitimate shot at "The American Dream"? I would contribute money (such as I have) to helping bring such a thing to pass. I'm sure that many others would do the same. These were kids of extraordinary ability, pluck, optimism... They beat the best MIT had to offer, for goodness sake! It just seems a shame that we should be OK with the fact that their talents are being wasted.</p>
<p>"Important to remember, I think: each of these "undocumented" kids came across as minors with their families. Their parents are the ones who broke the law, they didn't."</p>
<p>Many of these "undocumented" kids know no other home. They have grown up here. This is their country--but somehow we insist that it is important to punish them for the accident of where they were born. The law requires that they be sent back home, but where truly is their home.</p>
<p>Instead of encouraging these kids to seek an education and pursue productive lives, we treat them like criminals. We are afraid that they will take benefits that should be reserved for "citizens". Yet we look the other way when they end up taking the menial labor and farm work positions because no one else is willing to work that hard under those type of conditions. </p>
<p>Gaining residency or citizenship is a long, grueling process that mainly uses "family reunification" as the criteria--which means if you don't have family here, you aren't getting in. Even with family members, the wait can be over ten years because of quotas for various countries/areas of the world. There are exceptions for professionals with documented skills that are needed here and, oh yes, people who have lots of money to invest here also can get a waiver of the other criteria.</p>
<p>These kids have no chance given the current environment, particularly in a state like Arizona. And even if they could get the tuition, unless their status is changed from undocumented, they would be living every day under the shadow of being deported.</p>
<p>I think it would behoove any school to ''bend'' the rules and offer ''FREE'' tuition to these kids - some rules for education are made to be broken - IMHO!!!!!</p>
<p>Wow, that is a very riveting story, and also very sad as it is. Amazing, mere high school kids with not a lot of resources beating out advantaged MIT students!</p>
<p>
[quote]
But as in every complex issue, when it comes down to what happens to particular individuals, it's hard to keep the larger questions in mind.
[/quote]
Exactly, it would be awesome if these phenomenal kids were able to go to a university. But that would lead to so many other issues.</p>
<p>All these debates and discussions about undocumented aliens are so confusing, I really don't know what the solution would be.</p>
<p>...perhaps Exxon, having had its $11,000 robot lose, could dig up the cash for this...</p>
<p>That not happening, can private universities give out private aid, i.e. no aid without federal grants of any sort? </p>
<p>I'm not necessarily for public schools sponsoring this at in-state tuition(for the reasons mentioned above), but think that private schools might be the best medium for this. State/federal law could still ban the giving of federal aid, but allow private/merit aid for those kids who do well. Partial solution that at least will not upset the taxpaying citizens. </p>
<p>...this all being said by a VA resident who probably cannot apply for in-state tuition to VA schools - just being upfront about my biases.</p>
<p>This is just not so hard. Last time I looked, Swarthmore even had a special fund for folks who, for reasons of conscience, refused to register with Selective Service. Private colleges can pretty much do what they choose, so it's a telling commentary when they choose to do nothing.</p>
<p>(But don't discount the possibility that there is more happening behind the scenes....)</p>
<p>I would immediately donate to a reputable fund to help these kids go to college - this triumph of raw talent and devotion against all odds should be rewarded! We send money to 9/11 families and to rebuild Indonesia, how about to keep these kids in the US talent pool.</p>
<p>Going forward, illegal immigration ration is something I had to learn quite a bit about when I was consulting to the INS. The Border Patrol tour of the southern border is an incredible eye-opener. After several years in this environment, I developed the view that the US should start moving in the direction of NZ and AUS in our policies, essentially, that any individual coming to the US must meet the standard of adding to the skills or resources of the country (exceptions for immediate family or political asylum).</p>
<p>When "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" was penned, there were not 6 billion people on the planet and limited resources. I view nations as primarily geographical, economic, and governmental entities - those who are within the sphere should get first priority for the resources available. This is in no way an anti-compassionate point of view, but as the Buddha said, suffering is like the grains of sand on the beach. Compassion is not limited, but human beings, and nations, are limited in time, energy and resources - we cannot care for the whole world. Spend one hour on the streets of Calcutta and you'll know this for certain.</p>
<p>I believe that corporate interests, at root, are the primary culprit here. Constant influx of illegal immigrants (or, more precisely 'migrants' since many are outside the immigrations status benefits process) keeps the wages down. And the secondary beneficiary of uncertainty and constant striving for too few jobs is the government - keep 'em fearful, they'll play by the rules and be docile.</p>