I think that the idea of the best-of-the-best, transcendent kid is looking at things too linearly. Yes, that is certainly one path to the Ivies – those amazing, head-an-shoulders above all other kids do get admitted – and they are the ones who end up with multiple Ivy admits in their pockets.
But so do a lot of other kids. There are private high schools that are Ivy feeders and regularly send a dozen or more grads to Ivies every year, and there are public high schools that just fall into the category of being pretty good, which almost always send one or two of their top grads to the Ivies each year. These are all accomplished kids – but they are not all exceptional.
That’s why I analogize it more to a casting a big production rather than a one-lane competition. A casting director would hope that every single person cast would be highly capable – but doesn’t want 100 prima donnas either. Everyone can’t have a starring role, and different roles have different demands. Someone is going to have to play the character parts.
Perhaps I get to that view as the parent of a kid who did a lot of auditioning growing up.
It helps a lot to know in advance which role one is auditioning for. I think that perhaps in college admissions that is where a lot of students and their parents go wrong.
OP did your D receive any flak from the college counsellors about not taking ANY standardized tests while in HS? Just interested in the dynamic. My kids go to a highly regarded private school in another part of the U.S. that has kids take the PSAT in 9th, 10th and 11th and requires the kids to apply to college before the gap year. I guess if a parent fussed enough they might relent on the apply-before-graduation requirement but I’m curious if what your D did is common at her HS?
This is a very engaging discussion! I am learning a lot reading your thoughtful posts. I agree with those who are saying that Common App has completely twisted this process, although it has made applying logistically easier. When I was her age, I selectively wrote six applications by hand (while walking uphill, barefoot, in the snow, for ten miles - and I loved it). I’m not sure if that was a lot, but it sure seemed like it to me, thinking about how much effort I put into those essays. Ugh. But the acceptance letters were worth it. Nice stationary paper displaying the elegant logos. Do they still do that, or is everything electronic?
@GnocchiB : In answer to your question, it is uncommon but not unheard of. The college counselors couldn’t care less about when she took the tests (and neither do the colleges I asked, so long as she meets their deadlines), but in hindsight, it wasn’t the smartest thing we did. D2 won’t make that mistake. She’s a sophomore and is already preparing for standardized tests. I want her to be done by junior year. One thing I am still debating in my mind is if she wants to take a gap year, whether she should apply and defer, or put off applying until after graduation, like D1 is doing.
I’m not @sybbie719 but the three super aid colleges are HYP…in my opinion. They have huge endowments, and offer need based aid to families earning near $200,000.
I would add Stanford to the list too.
But in addition to super aid…they are SUPER competitive for,admissions…admitting about 5% of applicants.
OK?..I asked upstream if it would matter that this student took NO standardized tests while in HS, and just took them six months after HS graduation.
Most students applying to these high profile schools took these standardized tests during junior, or early senior year of HIGH SCHOOL.
It stands to reason that a student might do better six months after HS graduation (when the only thing to concentrate on is prep for them)…and is two years older with completion of more courses.
I would think the colleges would wonder WHY a student would defer the taking of these tests, not apply to college at all, take a gap year…and then take the standardized tests during the late fall of the gap year.
Note…there were both SAT and ACT early fall administration dates which this kiddo also elected not to take.
Just saying…I think the colleges will notice this…
Again, we really know very little about this gal. But the only times I recall late testing were, eg, if the student was ill for an extended period, out of the country where tests were difficult to arrange or on another track completely (eg, expected Olympic training for a few years, no college plans formed. That’s an extreme example, I know.) Yes, it’s surprising a number of us, who’ve been around for a while. But it’s a ‘time will tell’ thing.
I somehow thought, from OP’s early posts, that this was a competitive hs. OP should be sure there’s a coherent picture in her app/supps, that all this will make sense to reviewers. Despite some people thinking you have to “stand out,” it’s more about how one fits in the college’s eyes, their vision of “normal.”
My own personal theory is that the lack of ANY standardized testing til late fall of gap year will raise red flags at those schools that are effectively looking for reasons to deny applicants. I don’t know that the explanation that the applicant was anxious about testing will do anything other than hurt her application. I’ve never seen stats on (or even heard of, tbh) this scenario but it stands to reason that a huge majority of applicants get all their testing done while juggling classes and ECs and the fact that this student couldn’t or wouldn’t do it in the expected timeline raises questions.
Just my opinion as an alum of a HYP and the parent of a current HYP freshman.
OP, have you gotten your daughter help with her anxiety? Probably good to look into getting her professional help before she leaves for college and can’t opt out of stressful academic scenarios.
Bob – I don’t know if the testing history raises any red flags or not — but here is another important piece of advice I was given along the way: if there is anything at all that could be a problem in the student’s academic record or history, it does not work at the most competitive schools to simply bury it or ignore it and hope no one notices. Instead, the best way to deal with it is to explain it, either by having the guidance counselor include a note in their rec, or else in the part of the application where there is space for the applicant to add extra pertinent info. (It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a college app, but there is usually some sort of “is there anything else that you would like us to know” type of question).
That advice served us well. My daughter had plenty of explaining to do. In addition to mediocre test scores (which she didn’t try to explain - no excuse there other than that she doesn’t test well) — she had no high school math beyond advanced algebra as a sophomore, only 2 years of lab sciences, and a very light schedule spring semester of her junior year. This was due to scheduling problems after she spent a semester abroad as a foreign exchange student in fall of her junior year – but it obviously was something that could have caused concerns. My DD’s GC confirmed the scheduling issues – and DD included a note about how she felt her time abroad living with a host family and attending a foreign high school… and no one speaking English - was a greater challenge.
I think many of us sense that there’s more to your daughter’s story than you have posted and if I were you – I wouldn’t post private info about whatever challenges your DD has faced along the way on a public forum in any case. It is perfectly appropriate to gloss over some details in this context.
But the fact that we are sensing that there is something missing that we haven’t been told is a good indication that the college admissions readers will have the same sense - so that’s why it’s best to address these issues head on in the application.
The kids I know who have done gap years with the college mess behind them really have exceptional experiences. Admin work- done. Stress- over. Focus on learning a new language, living someplace different, exploring something intellectual or philanthropic that’s way out of your comfort zone.
The kids I know who have done gap years where they also need to apply to college- well, it’s not the same. It’s marginally less stressful because you aren’t walking into a HS cafeteria every day and hearing college talk- but it’s somewhat MORE stressful to stay on track without running into your guidance counselor in the hall who reminds you that XYZ is having a college fair in a nearby town and you haven’t signed up yet. And it’s March of your year out of the rat race and you still don’t know where you’re going in August- ugh.
Encourage D2 to do everything she needs to. If she decides on a gap year- it’s a quick letter to the adcom of wherever she’s attending. And done!
Thumper- of course. And some kids who think they want a gap year decide they are going off to college without one. But to take a gap year without having college sorted out- seems like a painful way to approach it.
Good luck to your daughter and I hope she gets into at least one of the private schools she is applying to. Between my 2 kids who we have gotten multiple FA offers for 100% need met schools. These offers were all within $2000 of the NPC I ran for each school and most were even closer. The 2 Ivies were not any better or worse than other top schools that are 100% need met. UChicago was slightly better but as someone else mentioned they don’t use the CSS which probably helps. If you have standard sources of income and typical uncomplicated investments then the NPC will probably be pretty close. If you own a business or have investment property it gets far more uncertain. The other thing you may have only noticed if you read all the fine print is that most of these schools will also have a student commitment and work commitment. My kids have savings but they are planned to cover their expenses so we either had to cover their remaining part too or they were going to have to work more than we had planned for them. Before you get the acceptances and offers it is nice to all be on the same page about work during school?/summers only? and what they will be responsible for paying on their own.
Advice for parents of current sophomores who don’t know if their kids should plan to take all standardized tests when their cohort does (yes they should in most cases). Advice for parents of current juniors who think “We can afford 15K per year of college-- surely the most generous “meets needs” schools will agree with that even though our share when we run the NPC’s is three times that”. Advice for parents of current freshman who think that admissions is less competitive now than it was “back in the day” because of the proliferation of online degrees.
I think, also, that OP finds some value in doing it “their way.” If the apps are in, everyone waits to see. I think there will be choices, come March. But in general, I wish more families would realize the colleges call the shots, they have expectations that have proven to work for their communities, there’s risk in bucking the system.
Regarding your second daughter. You say you want her to be completely done with standardized tests by junior year? Why?
If she has a great PSAT score, she will need to take the SAT if she wants to get to NMF status…and that won’t happen until after January of her junior year…at least.