Huge Scholarships to Live in the Bubble

Parent Cafe
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<p>I went to Williams. My d. was recruited at same, visited the campus on three occasions, and found it all over the place, from clothing styles to expensive liquor flasks brought by female students in designer jeans (with rips in them) to a capella concerts on Thursday nights. (But that isn’t why she turned them down, and for the record, I was relating my experience of 40 years ago, not hers, and in no way does this demean the academic quality of the students, nor their character - most 18-year-olds only know what they know and have been exposed to). For my younger one, we visited GW, and while sitting on a couch in the Starbucks underneath the library, we had an amusing 15 minutes looking at shoes. </p>

<p>I want to note that I think both were and are very fine schools, and offer excellent educations to students from many social classes. And yes, there is a lot of dripping. And, most of all, people’s experiences of the world differ, as do their responses to them (as this thread clearly indicates).</p>

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<p>I attended a private Midwest LAC on a near-full ride scholarship with a student body that was mostly upper-middle class or wealthier and I wouldn’t have thought to pull that attitude on my parents. It would have also been completely pointless as I knew my parents were in no position to help with any college expenses…everything not covered by that scholly was all on me…books, school supplies, spending money, etc. </p>

<p>Between maxing out my classloads, working part-time/summers, ECs, on/off-campus events through a college van my classmates and I borrowed as a group, and studying…there wasn’t much time or energy to obsess over what my classmates had…not to mention it was pointless as visible displays of wealth/conspicuous consumption was strongly abhorred and may even provoke openly harsh rebukes. </p>

<p>It also helps that my personality tends to regard maximized frugality…sometimes to excess as a virtue which illustrates one’s resourcefulness and ingenuity…an idea enthusiastically shared by many college classmates, including the well-off ones. </p>

<p>It’s one reason why I was able to get away with wearing old hand-me-down clothes for 4 years without anyone else really caring. No one would even notice…much less care…it was all about how intelligent and confident you carried yourself in class discussions and during intellectual bull sessions. </p>

<p>I never had a car because I never needed one in my hometown(NYC) and it was too much of an expense/hassle to keep one…especially considering the town had strict limits on parking and barred freshmen from keeping vehicles altogether. </p>

<p>Though there was a little bit of classism at my college…it was confined to a tiny minority of fellow freshmen who had the odd notion that private/boarding school graduates were naturally going to excel compared with their public school counterparts…especially those from urban areas like myself. However, we urban public school graduates had no problems consigning that assumption to the trash within the first semester when our first paper/test grades came back. </p>

<p>Didn’t let it bother me and graduated without having my parents pay one red cent for my undergrad expenses. Keeping up with the joneses is a mug’s game and he should blaze his own path to campus greatness.</p>

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<p>Sorry mini, for some reason I thought it was your daughter not you who went to Williams. </p>

<p>I’m surprised that she found that to still be the case at Williams. My son is at one of the LACS in Maine and the kids couldn’t be more opposite. It’s like Cobart’s LAC.</p>

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<p>My son is currently at our flagship where is tuition is far cheaper than what we paid yearly for a private prep school for 10 years. He’s not currently in the bubble but he was raised in one.</p>

<p>His classmates primer through 12th grade were mostly upper middle class to extremely weathly. Unfortunately, he has developed a taste for the finer things in life (in part our fault since we have the means and he is an only child). We have tried to temper this as much as possible (and my husband is the epitome of frugal) but it’s difficult to grow up ‘in the bubble’ or even be in it for a while and not succumb to the temptation.</p>

<p>Having said that, the one positive thing I have noticed over the years with the kids at my son high school is they all end up doing very well for themselves and are very motivated to be successful. Out of my son’s immediate peer group, a half dozen are gunning for medical school, at least another half dozen law school and many are thinking grad school. They know they will need to do well in order to support themselves in the lifestyle in which they grew up. Looking back at kids who graduated 10 years ago, to the one they are all doing very well regardless of where they went to college.</p>

<p>My point is, on the bright side, your son may become motivated to work even harder and perhaps make enough money to support himself in the manner he now thinks he’s entitled to. :)</p>

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<p>SimpleLife-- Thank you for posting. Dear D a junior at a “Bubble” campus, wonderful Financial Aid, but it still costs us a pretty penny to cover our end (and well worth it). She and I have had conversations about items and experiences that her classmates have that she doesn’t and doesn’t expect. She works also while going to school, and all in all, she is a sensible young woman who realizes her blessings, rather than constantly comparing herself to others with greater financial resources. HOWEVER, she has commented more than once on how many repairs (nothing structural) our house is needing, kind of almost in a chiding tone of voice. Also, how dull our summers have been with no vacations (such as, if our family isn’t going to take a vacation AGAIN this summer, I may as well go on a car trip with my friends between end of summer and start of fall semester). </p>

<p>I had to say, "We make choices. Our family is investing in your education, rather than in fixing our house right now. Believe me, I would love to do both. Hmmm, you could transfer to a closer school and live at home (several area state colleges), and we could afford some pretty nice vacations for a change. But I think we both know you are getting a great education and better experience (better fit) where you are. " I did feel that, having visited some of her wealthier friends’ homes, she was comparing… or just not realizing, how much of a stretch this is for us financially, though certainly we have more than have what we need. Of course, she stated I was making her feel guilty, and that was not the intent. </p>

<p>I do think she is moving toward looking carefully at careers that pay relatively well, while still meeting her intellectual interests. This is probably realistic, but I wonder if some of it is seeing how the other half lives. That said, she also has had friends who have gone through many personal challenges, despite their wealth, and she realized monetary wealth does not buffer people from life’s ups and downs (major illness, death of a family member, substance issues in the family). Of course, everyone has challenges-- it is part of the human condition-- and it is good that she is seeing that. All in all, I’m glad she is where she is, but I also find annoying to hear statements like “All my friends are traveling over winter break” (Sad face.) “Ok, get in touch with some of your friends from high school to catch up.” </p>

<p>Really, there is so much abject misery in the world (think AIDs orphans in Africa) that I find I have to move away from these conversations. I haven’t yet found myself shouting, “DO YOU EVEN REALIZE HOW EXTREMELY LUCKY YOU ARE FOR THESE OPPORTUNITIES, AND THOSE YOU HAVE HAD AS A MIDDLE CLASS KID IN THE US ALL YOUR LIFE!!!”</p>

<p>Ok, that felt good. :-)</p>

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<p>SimpleLife-- Thank you for posting. Dear D a junior at a “Bubble” campus, wonderful Financial Aid, but it still costs us a pretty penny to cover our end (and well worth it). She and I have had conversations about items and experiences that her classmates have that she doesn’t and doesn’t expect. She works also while going to school, and all in all, she is a sensible young woman who realizes her blessings, rather than comparing herself to others with greater financial resources. HOWEVER, she has commented numerous times how many repairs (nothing structural) our house is needing, kind of almost in a chiding tone of voice. Also, how dull our summers have been with no vacations (such as, if our family isn’t going to take a vacation AGAIN this summer, I may as well go on a car trip with my friends between end of summer and start of fall semester). </p>

<p>I had to say, "We make choices. Our family is investing in your education, rather than in fixing our house right now. Believe me, I would love to do both. Hmmm, you could transfer to a closer school and live at home (several area state colleges), and we could afford some pretty nice vacations for a change. But I think we both know you are getting a great education and better experience (better fit) where you are. " I did feel that, having visited some of her wealthier friends’ homes, she was comparing… or just not realizing, how much of a stretch this is for us financially, though certainly we have more than have what we need. Of course, she stated I was making her feel guilty, and that was not the intent. </p>

<p>I do think she is moving toward looking carefully at careers that pay relatively well, while still meeting her intellectual interests. This is probably realistic, but I wonder if some of it is seeing how the other half lives. That said, she also has had friends who have gone through many personal challenges, despite their wealth. Of course, everyone has challenges-- it is part of the human condition. All in all, I’m glad she is where she is, but I also find annoying to hear statements like “All my friends are traveling over winter break” (Sad face.) “Ok, get in touch with some of your friends from high school to catch up.” </p>

<p>Really, there is so much abject misery in the world (think AIDs orphans in Africa) that I find I have to move away from these conversations. I haven’t yet found myself shouting, “DO YOU EVEN REALIZE HOW EXTREMELY LUCKY YOU ARE FOR THESE OPPORTUNITIES, AND THOSE YOU HAVE HAD AS A MIDDLE CLASS KID IN THE US ALL YOUR LIFE!!!”</p>

<p>Ok, that felt good. :-)</p>

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<p>I’m with mini on all this. </p>

<p>We grown folks are still developing character, too. I hope I’m not done growing out of foolish mistakes…</p>

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<p>Tell him to get a job . . . it will be fun and he will meet lot’s of people. Two weeks after his first day, be sure to bring the camera and take a picture of his face when he reads “F.I.C.A.” on his pay stub! :)</p>

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<p>Sorry, OP & others. It is a challenge when your kiddo goes to a college where MANY, MANY of the kids there appear to have unlimited funds. My kids also attend(ed) such a U. So far, they appear to have remained grounded and are grateful that though we’ve sent them to their dream U in the bubble, we haven’t had to cut back to PBJ sandwiches & ramen on a regular basis to get by & pay their tuitions.</p>

<p>S took great pride in being frugal. I think it helped that he also had friends who took pride in being frugal & it was a contest among themselves, how inexpensively they could have a lifestyle they were happy with. He made great use of Craigslist for furnishing his apartment stylishly and VERY frugally. He also made a profit when he bought and sold his textbooks. He seems to enjoy buying & selling items on-line, pocketing a profit to supplement his income.</p>

<p>D is not quite as frugal as her brother but has tried to keep her expenses down as well. She definitely has classmates & friends that are MUCH wealthier than we (one has access to a private jet and amazing vacations wherever his & his family’s heart’s desire). She also has many classmates and friends that are sacrificing a great deal to attend this U and expect to graduate with significant debt.</p>

<p>S has been motivated to have good internships and get a good job. We hope D will as well, but time will tell. So far, she seems very grateful for all we have done for her and does not ask for much other than room, board & us keeping her on family cell & medical insurance plans. She dreams of getting a used car & we have told her she can ONCE SHE GETS A JOB so she can pay for insurance, gas and maintenance. (She originally got a job on her 2nd day on campus but the position was eliminated because she didn’t have work-study and she hasn’t been able to get another job.) Paying for those 3 things was the condition of S getting a car so it only seems fair that she should pay the same items. S got his used car his SR year of college, so he could go to interviews & because we happened to have gotten a newer used car for ourselves so we sent him our oldest car. We are likely acquiring a car that we can ship D as well–it’s 20 years old.</p>

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<p>encourage him to get a GF. Several if possible.
Some will be high maintenance. Some will be low maintenance. Some will see a gold mine, and some will see a gravel pit. If he’s really lucky, he’ll hook on to someone who has a much bigger bubble than his. :)</p>

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<p>I don’t think this issue is specific to “bubble” campuses. In our case, its kind of been the opposite. D is at a state school, and we didn’t even apply for financial aid her freshman year. Two years later, S started at his pricey LAC, and now both are heavily supported by financial aid, and I’m running dry. </p>

<p>It is D who has more of an entitlement attitude because she has gotten so used to me being able to afford everything she wanted to do. And in the past, I could, especially with instate tuition, but I can’t now. She has worked some, but always thought of it more for extras. She is really not comprehending that her lifestyle will be altered when she graduates this semester.</p>

<p>S, on the other hand, went into college with the understanding that it was a stretch and that I was running out of money. So far, despite a heavier than normal course load, and some serious time management and ADD issues, he’s been working every semester and all summer every summer - more than I want him to. He’s also gravitated to kids at his school who are worse off economically than we are, and who tend to have a hell of a work ethic. I think the fact that the financial aid package expects him to contribute means a lot to him, and he wouldn’t feel right not working or asking for money. The rich
kid mentality doesn’t appeal to him. </p>

<p>So I guess I just think that every kid is different, and just because you send a kid to a fancy school, doesn’t necessarily mean they are more likely to get an entitlement attitude. Sometimes if you are BETTER able to support them, at a cheaper school, they may feel more entitled. And, in my experience, there are some rich kids almost everywhere.</p>

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<p>SimpleLife: It sounds like your son is doing what he can to bring in money and is an all round great kid who has developed a “misimpression” about resources. Assume he is not an economics major? I suggest you give him a defined allowance at the beginning of each term and let him manage his money to cover his needs and wants. When he runs out of funds he will have to figure out how to cover his shortage – do without, or borrow, or whatever, but make it his problem, not yours. Then explain to him that is how your life works and you have done as much as you can for him but you don’t have a golden egg to cash in.</p>

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<p>Initially he may be unhappy with you but eventually, once he understands financial reality, he should be very grateful to you for all you have done for him.</p>

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<p>We could have given D1 more money when she was in college, but we gave her a set amount, once it was gone, it was gone. We prepped her since freshman in college that we wouldn’t be supporting her after college. She needed to find a job to support her lifestyle.</p>

<p>D1 is working now, in my view a good salary. But because of her location, it is hard to find a nice apartment with what she could afford. As much as I don’t like the small apartment she is living in, we are not paying for a nicer one for her, like many of her friends’ parents are doing. She is very happy with her small apartment she is paying for herself. She is also putting some money away each month for “raining days” because I told her that she should try to have 3-6 months in reserve.</p>

<p>D1 will let it be known that some of friends at work only wear shoes with red soles (Christian Louboutin) or new designer handbags their parents just bought them. I just nod and smile. D2 still lives at home, so I’ll buy her things, but not for D1.</p>

<p>It is important to let them know before they go off to college how much money you are giving them, if any, and how much support you will give them after college, if any. I went to one of those expensive LACs on FA. While many of my friends were history/english majors, I was a math/econ major because I knew I needed a job after graduation. I didn’t have the luxury of “finding myself.” Often people do not like to discuss money with kids, but I think it is important to let them know upfront what they could expect from parents so they could plan ahead.</p>

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<p>My D is at Williams on financial aid and her BFF’s are full pay students. They all seem to be down to earth and she doesn’t feel out of place. She has a very part time job and asks me for little financial support.</p>

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<p>Momom2, Joblue, MomLive, mamita, and 2bornot2bivy, thanks for your compassion and insight. @mamita, it’s pretty impressive that you haven’t yet resorted to that “scream” in your last paragraph. Funny. Then again, your D doesn’t sound like she quite has the full-blown entitlement bug. I HAVE resorted to that very scream. A few times. :)</p>

<p>There is no question… my son has to grow up. As 2bornot2bivy assessed, he seems to have “misimpressions” about resources – well, and his entitlement to them. </p>

<p>I do want to clarify a few things.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I know that not all middle-class kids who go to school in the Bubble develop this attitude. I didn’t mean to imply that IF your kid goes to school on a Bubble campus, he/she WILL turn into an entitlement monster. I think most kids do not. In fact, my son has several friends on scholarship, and they’re the opposite of him. They’re like my other kids – all humble, and grateful, and frugal, and speak of never asking for more from their parents.</p></li>
<li><p>I also didn’t mean to imply that the wealthy kids on the campus are all rich brats with overblown entitlement issues, nor that they’re to blame for my son’s attitude. I do think his attitude developed from being surrounded by wealth – I think he figures he should have some of that. But I’m not foolish enough to think that the other kids are to blame! I mean, I didn’t intend to put the rich kids down. But I do think that his experience in the Bubble has influenced his thoughts and behavior.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My son really likes the kids at school. I like the ones I’ve met, too. They’re friendly, interesting, and smart. Some people worry that a rich, Bubble campus will be filled with unfriendly snobs who draw lines around the haves and the have-nots. We haven’t found that to be the case. The wealthy kids DO live VERY well, in terms of what they own and what they can afford to do. But we have found them to be welcoming and just, well, normal.</p>

<p>To be perfectly honest, though, I will add this: Based on what comes out of some of their mouths … um, well … there is evidence that plenty of them don’t understand that they’re uniquely fortunate; that it’s not THEIR money, it’s their parents’; that it wasn’t THEIR personal success that got them what they have; and that the things they complain about are … well, embarrassingly minor in the grand scheme of things. (My son tends to complain about things that are embarrassingly minor, too. Like having to endure the inefficiencies of a 3G iPhone. It’s not even a 3Gs! It’s too much to bear!) But they’re nice kids who are young and still learning. We like them.</p>

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<p>SimpleLife, I did get a complaint that we have never gone overseas and the “everyone else” has traveled to Europe many times.</p>

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<p>“To be perfectly honest, though, I will add this: Based on what comes out of some of their mouths … um, well … there is evidence that plenty of them don’t understand that they’re uniquely fortunate; that it’s not THEIR money, it’s their parents’; that it wasn’t THEIR personal success that got them what they have;…But they’re nice kids who are young and still learning.”</p>

<p>This is my experience as well. And the issue is that if they aren’t actually taught that their fortune is large a function of the birth lotto, often they won’t learn it. It doesn’t make them snobs, or “not nice”; but without education, it may leave them ignorant (which they may rarely be willing to even consider), and lacking in the empathy department. (There is a recent study out of the University of Michigan, looking at 14,000 college students over the past 30 years, finding college students substantially less empathetic than three decades ago.) It was/is the hope of prestige colleges that having a mix of students of socio-economic classes on campuses will help that. The minimum of evidence suggests that this is necessary, but not sufficient.</p>

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<p>^Very interesting, mini. I wonder how that compares to the population as a whole. Like, could the general population, in that age group, ALSO be less empathetic than 3 decades ago? That stuff fascinates me.</p>

<p>And yes, I agree with you – and ironically, so does my son. If they aren’t taught that they were merely born into what is good fortune, not necessarily superior “worth,” they may grow up ignorant and unempathetic. Several of my son’s friends voice the opinion that the poor in their surrounding community simply haven’t done the right things or worked hard enough to have what they themelves have. It’s ridiculous, and it infuriates my son. They get into big social and political discussions over it. And yet …</p>

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<p>[Today’s</a> College Students Lacking in Empathy - Miller-McCune](<a href=“miller-mccune.com”>miller-mccune.com)</p>

<p>The actual study is far better than the news clip. I find the explanation less satisfactory (and have written about it at length - it’s in my next book: <a href=“http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/1108/empathy_is_the_tenth_intelligence_by_david_h_albert.htm[/url]”>http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/1108/empathy_is_the_tenth_intelligence_by_david_h_albert.htm&lt;/a&gt; )</p>