<p>There are vats of brats everywhere. Lol</p>
<p>Thanks all, for your contributions and encouragement. Many of you said basically the same thing – that he’ll likely come back around, eventually. Like the others, I liked the way sax put it. It IS like he’s been dipped in a vat of brattiness! I am sure that his experience in grad school will be eye-opening! It’s going to be hard to witness, I’m afraid. But I am sure it will be good for him. Or … maybe he’ll come around more gently on his own over the next 18 months?? Now, wouldn’t that be nice? :)</p>
<p>2bornot2bivy – Of course, I agree with you. “Making it” in music (or any of the arts) takes more than talent and hard work. I sure didn’t mean to imply that the musicians who are “good enough” WILL make it, or that those who didn’t make it weren’t very good. No intentions to hurt feelings here or to put anybody down. I just meant to say that if he’s NOT good enough, then it’s NOT possible.</p>
<p>“Just wondering -Are these “vats of brattiness” on every campus ?”</p>
<p>To paraphrase mini, you can find them everywhere, but some campuses have a lot more than others. Risk factors for extra vats include being secular, co-ed, residential, expensive, and heavily white/middle class, with moderate academic demands and a low percentage of students on need-based aid. (Unlike mini’s drinking risk factors, mine are made up, but I do think they’re true.)</p>
<p>my s is on a full ride, tuition/room/board, at a CC top liberal arts college known to be mostly preppy/wealthy students. while he has encountered a majority of privileged students, who likely can go into family businesses, professions with ease upon graduation he has not fallen into a vat of brattiness. In fact he has had a different experience than described here. </p>
<p>He has increased his understanding about the differences between the haves and have nots and recognizes many of the privileged students cluelessness about their advantages. While he has developed a taste for a couple of nicer things, overall he remains a down to earth young man. He sometimes doesn’t feel he fits in with some of the students, who aren’t boastful about their situations, but simply are unaware of their station in life, interested in Ibanking etc. My s sees how the majority of the campus does not identify with the 99% and therefore have different interests and politics. However, an upside is seeing this side of life has demonstrated to my s that he can aspire to some of these privileges as he makes choices leaving college and embarks on his professional life while remaining true to himself, ie. no interest in banking jobs…</p>
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<p>Not sure being secular or having moderate academic demands necessarily increase the number of brattiness vats. </p>
<p>Saw plenty of brattiness vats at BC…and heard plenty of rants/complaints from colleagues who lived near/around its Newton campus. Also witnessed/heard about numerous such vats at other religious colleges of various denominations…including some conservative religious ones (Some of those Evangelical students are real contenders in the brattiness department…especially to those they perceive as not being of “their kind”). . </p>
<p>As for moderate academic demands being a factor…saw plenty of such vats at Columbia and seen/heard plenty of such at nearly every elite college/university not known for “moderate workloads”. </p>
<p>One memorable encounter involved an extremely ornery undergrad who screamed at me because he mistook me for a TA in some intro history class who gave him a C on an essay. Let’s just say I don’t react well to rude people…especially those with an inflated sense of entitlement.</p>
<p>I have two children. One graduated in 2010, one is still in college. Our experience when DS finished his undergrad was interesting. Even though he had been living off campus for two years and on a very set budget we created. We put his room and board money in his account every month and that was what he had. he was responsible for paying his rent, cable, electric, heat, food, transportation,etc. Those were some good growing up years for him. Our conversations about the future started his senior year. We let him know he could come live at home to save for grad school but only if he had a job. His path was complicated, he ended up moving cross country back home, losing that first job, and moving cross country again three months later. He is financially independent although we help with Christmas tickets to come home, small food packages,etc. I have no idea of hi monthly expenses, salary,etc.<br>
I am providing all this background because I want to ebpncourage the OP to start now having a conversation about what happens after graduation. you mention grad school, will that be right after undergrad? How will grad school be financed? How much will you be able and willing to assist financially after undergrad?
We found that with ours and lots of his friends in today’s economy you want to have these conversations sooner rather than later. I could tell you some horror stories about 24 year olds with no job living on mom and dad waiting for that perfect job to drop from heaven while mom and dad are still working like dogs…Entitlement at it’s worst.
PS I have had employees who were making that 100k in their late twenties and still weren’t making it due to all their student loans.</p>
<p>SimpleLife – Curious What kind of grad school will your son be going to? for music? or other?</p>
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<p>Hi ebeeeee. I cannot imagine my son even wanting to go in that direction. If I were to beg him to live at home (I wouldn’t), he would say no way and run in the opposite direction! 
He’s VERY independent … well except for financially, it seems. We’re very close and actually do have a lot of respect for each other. I guess I didn’t convey that while describing the problem. I think I have said, though, that we’ve been discussing finances since middle school. We’re very open about that at my house. He and I both understand the post-undergrad game-plan. Will he balk and keep displaying a sense of entitlement after he graduates? I don’t know. That’s the kind of thing that worried me to the point of writing. But I AM ultimately in control of how much I give him. I mean … he can act entitled all he wants; and I will feel unhappy if he doesn’t grow up in that way; but it doesn’t mean he’ll get what he asks for – IF that’s the direction he takes it after he graduates. I’m hoping it’s NOT.</p>
<p>I want to say this about him – because I’m feeling a little protective of him when I hear some of the comments from people who can’t possibly know him based only on one facet that I have described (meaning, it’s not your fault that you don’t have the full picture). He has had a financial entitlement issue as of late. I mean, things come out of his mouth that surprise me. BUT, he is a very good person and a really great son and brother and friend. I love him dearly and I’m proud of him, in general. Just like all of you are proud of your kids. He’s not really a BRAT – though bratty things do come out of his mouth on occasion, and he does still have some learning to do.</p>
<p>2bornot2bivy, he’ll be going to grad school for music.</p>
<p>“Not sure being secular or having moderate academic demands necessarily increase the number of brattiness vats.”</p>
<p>Of course they don’t necessarily. That’s inherent in the term “risk factor.” 500-pound people don’t necessarily have higher blood pressure than 200-pound people, but obesity is a risk factor.</p>
<p>Maybe you disagree about which risk factors are predictive, but I would never suggest there’s a 1-1 correlation between anything and anything else.</p>
<p>We are fairly well off, but not compared to the families of some of the friends my son made at Penn. He knew we had paid a fortune up to that point for his education (including Penn full pay), so he didn’t really push us for more money. He got a job which paid pretty well. I wasn’t thrilled with him working, because I thought it would take away from his academics, but it turned out that the job (a really good paralegal position) helped him get his post-college job in terrible market (2010). He also had friends that were SO wealthy that they paid for him! One young man from a South American country took all his friends to Las Vegas, including my son. Limo, etc. Tough life… Another young man’s family had a huge home on a private island in Alaska and all the boys were invited for a week one summer. All they had to do was fly to Anchorage and a private plane picked them up there. There were chefs to cook the salmon the boys caught. </p>
<p>I really do think my son learned from and appreciated the experiences he had, and he seems to have adjusted to post-college life on his own fairly well.</p>
<p>Apologies, I have not read the entire thread, so hope this is not redundant.</p>
<p>I am a bit surprised that your son has picked up some feelings of entitlement. I am guessing that because he had a full tuition scholarship that perhaps he justified in “expecting” his other expenses to be paid. Our younger s has a full tuition scholarship and does tend to justify what we may consider unnecessary expenses with his “but I have a scholarship” mantra. We give him a monthly allowance and he had to make his purchases from what we gave him. He would still have a talent for justifying our paying for something, and when he is home we do pay, but a simple " you can pay for that with your funds" should suffice. Good luck.</p>
<p>SimpleLife, I dont have the same financial mentality now that I did when I was your sons age. Certain things really do only come with time and experience and understanding the true meaning of the word budget are one of those things. I would only advise you to make sure he doesnt do something silly like apply for a credit card without getting your counsel first. Thats always been one of my fears, that my son get into financial trouble with a credit card and none of us even be aware that he has one.</p>