<p>It's a good school for undergraduates. </p>
<p>Pass the word.</p>
<p>Does this hold true for every other UC?</p>
<p>How about its engineering college?</p>
<p>Oh, what would Nietzsche say about this pursuit of truth?</p>
<p>Liberal censors: What made you hate it so much? It seems something dreadful happened to you here.</p>
<p>just because you don't like it doesn't mean it it's a bad school for all undergraduates! i would really like to know why you chose Berkeley in the first place, Liberal Censors. Please. Because if you didn't know beforehand that not everybody and everything is going to live up to your extremely high expectations, that's your problem and not Berkeley's.... AAARRRGGGHHHHH.</p>
<p>Please, for the love of golly, just ignore the troll and hopefully he'll get bored and go back to his NRA or clan meetings.</p>
<p>LiberalCensors thinks his/her opinions matter. No one gives a damn.</p>
<p>Pass the word.</p>
<p>Sadly, the level of maturity and the manners exhibited by those in this thread and others are exactly why Berkeley sucks.</p>
<p>"LiberalCensors thinks his/her opinions matter. No one gives a damn."</p>
<p>I don't like what you say, so I'll devalue you as a person instead. Groupthink is quite evident among undergraduates a Berkeley. In my opinion, a consequence of having average people that can't cogntively reach the standards necessary for a higher level education. </p>
<p>"Please, for the love of golly, just ignore the troll and hopefully he'll get bored and go back to his NRA or clan meetings."</p>
<p>"If you're not with us, you're against us." It applies much more for liberals than it does for real conservatives. Indeed, Berkeley people and liberals are generally intolerant in general of people that don't fit into their narrow range of preconceived notions.</p>
<p>Only go to Berkeley if you want to be an Engineer or Businessman or you can go for much cheaper than your second best alternative. Also go if you have friends going there, because you'll need them; everyone is very cliquey.</p>
<p>I hate berkeley because there are so many untalented people here masquerading as intelligent individuals. They're ability to affect the social and academic environment at Berkeley is quite profound, but I won't go too much into the details but a simple story upon which many situations can be extrapolated on can illustrate my point. If you have fewer, higher quality people, you would have a much better environment. People would know things about current events, or rather at least know even English. They would have manners instead of anti-social behavior because they know they would have to deal with that person on a constant basis, and people properly trained in etiquette will never go down the path of least resistance anyways. </p>
<p>A simple analogy would be to compare many people at Berkeley versus the majority of people on most internet boards, obnoxious, rude ranters, that change very little over time.</p>
<p>Buddy, you often lack manners. You can be nice, but you often don't try to do it. What people here don't know English? There are many good reasons to go to Berkeley, including a few that you name. It's not perfect, but no place is. I'm not claiming everyone should come here, or would be happy at Berkeley.</p>
<p>I don't like what you say because most of it's wrong and libel, and respect you as a person, but you act terribly rude (and paricipate in groupthink, which you say you dislike).</p>
<p>It's an internet board, nobody really cares, and I certainly was neither disrespectful or rude in any of my inital posts, only as a response in kind to other rude posts. Nor would I ever be disrespectful in the real world anyways, even though many Berkeley people are. </p>
<p>Yes, many people here do not know English or how to read and write at a college level. Many asian students are immigrants but their English is very poor as is they're writing even though it seems they can understand enough to read and do decently well on tests. If they can't read and write, they can't partake in interactions and conversation necessary towards growth as a person. </p>
<p>Groupthink is the act of seek external validation from others to reinforce your own preconceived notions of whats right and wrong. I hardly do that, and if someone on this board would provide credible arguments against my points I would listen and adapt readily. Indeed, people would rather make ad hominem attacks or picayune details to avoid the points I make altogether. That is groupthink; you can't deal with opposing points so you just wipe them away altogether by attributing them to some broad generality. Its just a simple fact that most of the things I talk about of Berkeley have a great deal of basis in reality, you can argue to the relative extent, but they exist.</p>
<p>Libel is only when you flat-out lie. According to dictionary.com, it's:</p>
<ol>
<li>A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.</li>
<li>The act of presenting such material to the public.</li>
</ol>
<p>Everything I've said has some element of truth in it because its happened to me and people I know. Maybe you've been lucky and avoided all the things I've talked about, its a big school thats likely. You can argue the extent if you want, but the fact that it has happened should be taken into account by people who are picking colleges according to the likely experience you'll get it.</p>
<p>Berkleley's not perfect like any school, but it could be much better, mostly through small adjustments and higher demands on the student body. The quality of the education really takes a second seat to politics and the budget and it shows, and apparently will continue to show in future years since California's governance is still in disarray.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You mean "their" English.</p>
<p>Sorry, I just had to. The irony.</p>
<p>Anyway, my little tidbit on liberal censors: You seem like a really intelligent guy, but you also seem to despise practically everyone. I understand what you mean to a certain degree about "antisocial,""moronic" Berkeley students, but there are still tons of really damn smart kids out there who do know how to socialize at the same time. It really isn't as bad as you make it to be. And I just wonder why you seem to hate Berkeley so much. It can't just be because of those reasons, but perhaps something more personal and deeper?</p>
<p>As I said I have had bad beats here so I'm am anti-Berkeley in general. I've had some good too, but usually the good is not as pervasive as the bad. From having an annoying-selfish roommates throughout my first 3 years here to my bad experiences trying to penetrate social groups. Maybe I was really unlucky, Maybe I was only one of very few that had an a-hole floor my freshman year that would just ignore you when you talk or have had to work with the laziest people in every class. But its happened so consistently that I can't help but think there's some sort of method to the madness. </p>
<p>There really is a huge difference here and when I go home to my southern city. Despite similar urban concentration, people are generally nicer; they offer help when they see you in trouble, they make conversation with you, and you tend to never hear cursing or any of that other crap. I'm not talking about just the city, I'm talking about the students too when I visit other colleges. As I said, mileage may vary, but if it can happen to me, it can happen to you.</p>
<p>LiberalCensors,</p>
<p>I think you just had a bad culture shock moving to California that you never managed to adjust to. I don't know that it's necessarily that Berkeley is filled with dumb people (if it is, then all the top universities are, if only based on test scores) as much as it's filled with people with a fairly different culture set than you.</p>
<p>It's interesting how your complaints in your earlier thread were exactly the same complaints that my friend had at Penn and I had at UCLA. I mean, IDENTICAL. I showed your thread to my buddy, and he said, "Woah, this sounds like Penn."</p>
<p>Maybe I'm wrong, but you probably would have been better served by a LAC or smaller university with a similar student body to your tastes. You obviously aren't comfortable with something in California, and that has definitely hurt your experience.</p>
<p>It's too bad for you, because college should be fun. Do you think maybe for grad school you should go back South? There are some great programs, and I'm sure you could get into a couple.</p>
<p>But the "their" English mistake? You set yourself up for that one. ;)</p>
<p>There's not really any culture in california, except a faux-tolerance of things that lets minority groups be racist and demand special priveleges. California is pretty left-wing on all counts; but the biggest difference I see is in minority relations. Very few if any minorities ascribe or adapt to the "mainstream" culture but instead form quasi-ghettos. Black people hang out with black people. Asian people hang out with asian people, etc. Sure they talk to each other in class but hardly do you see them together much. There's some overlap, but the cliquishness itself is aggravating and obnoxious.</p>
<p>Berkeley is filled with a lot of pretty dumb people, transfers, those that come from crappy high schools where it was easy to get a 4.0, etc. California schools seem to have such poor standards that nothing can be taken for granted, making a lot of the school feel like High School redux. Oddly, its been mainly white people that have been most tolerant all around and have actual manners. I'm not talking about saying hi to each other or something that can be considered a privelege. I'm talking about things like getting your work done, respecting people's private space, and showing some consideration for the feelings of others you maintain long-term relationships with. </p>
<p>That alone would just be annoying, and there have been some good, but when push comes to shove here, you can hardly ever expect anyone to be nice to one another here. Berkeley is like a giant machine to turn out people desperate to be doctors, engineers, whatever.</p>
<p>That combined with huge tuition hikes, and the deteriorating quality of classes (especially in upper division where the experience is highly uneven due to professor that have only taught a class once or twice), its particularly aggravating. Each of these things is probably at one university or another, but Berkeley brings them all in such confluence that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am Asian and Caucasian, and I do agree with you to a certain degree about this. I went to an out-of-state high school and I never thought about race until I came here. It's as if emphasizing that one is a minority somehow makes people less prejudiced; however it seems that people naturally hang out with their own race for some reason or another. In my old high school, people didn't really do that. </p>
<p>
<p>Berkeley is filled with a lot of pretty dumb people, transfers, those that come from crappy high schools where it was easy to get a 4.0, etc. California schools seem to have such poor standards that nothing can be taken for granted, making a lot of the school feel like High School redux. Oddly, its been mainly white people that have been most tolerant all around and have actual manners. I'm not talking about saying hi to each other or something that can be considered a privelege. I'm talking about things like getting your work done, respecting people's private space, and showing some consideration for the feelings of others you maintain long-term relationships with.
</p>
<p>I don't agree with this bit. What do you mean by it's been "white people that have been most tolerant" and respect 'people's private space" etc? While the previous did not seem racist, this does seem somewhat racist. It seems people at Berkeley in general, of all races, have the same mentality: compete; ignore; use. It's the same thing for all races.</p>
<p>do you really think you can be respected with a name such as "liberalcensors" because its liberals who always restrict freedom of speech, you know that liberal McCarthy who would hang people to death if if their mother's uncle once walked into a meeting of Communists. And what's even worse is when in 2001 we restricted freedoms even more under the guise of "Patriot"ism. And how smart can you be , if as a conservative, you chose to go to UC-Berkeley. Rofl.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is filled with a lot of pretty dumb people, transfers, those that come from crappy high schools where it was easy to get a 4.0, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You forget that these same "dumb" people also had to do well on the same standardized tests that you took. It's not like there's some "EZ Cali" edition of the SAT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sure they talk to each other in class but hardly do you see them together much. There's some overlap, but the cliquishness itself is aggravating and obnoxious.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did you ever, I dunno...try to talk to anyone? I had lots of friends at UCLA of all ethnicities. I'm just curious. </p>
<p>
[quote]
That combined with huge tuition hikes, and the deteriorating quality of classes (especially in upper division where the experience is highly uneven due to professor that have only taught a class once or twice), its particularly aggravating. Each of these things is probably at one university or another, but Berkeley brings them all in such confluence that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry, but having done studies at at least a few different schools, talked to friends at other top schools, and done at least some comparing and contrasting, I don't think that Berkeley is that unique amongst large schools. I really think that you would have been better served by a smaller, more LACish school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oddly, its been mainly white people that have been most tolerant all around and have actual manners. I'm not talking about saying hi to each other or something that can be considered a privelege. I'm talking about things like getting your work done, respecting people's private space, and showing some consideration for the feelings of others you maintain long-term relationships with.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You're going to have to pardon me, but this sounds awfully bigoted in its current form. Please elaborate.</p>
<p>I don't feel the comment was bigoted. He was merely describing and observation.</p>