<p>Does anyone know more about this Program? I have heard that they only allow Humanities majors to apply who have NOT taken any Orgo or Physics, and that most of the required Premed Science courses are completed in the Summer break before the start of Med school.</p>
<p>No MCATs required. Does anyone know how many seats are available for this Program and how competitive it is?</p>
<p>Mount</a> Sinai - Humanities and Medicine Early Acceptance Program</p>
<p>I would search SDN for info on this.</p>
<p>I think I remember seeing a thread on this last year when I was applying (to normal schools, not via the Mt. Sinai program). It didn't look like very many people got interviews on the SDN thread. So, it looks pretty competitive as I would imagine it to be.</p>
<p>
[quote]
MCAT's are neither required nor permitted to be taken.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hmmmmmmmm.</p>
<p>from the amherst premed website
they say "only two to four Amherst students per year are accepted to this program." Other than that i have no clue how many in total are accepted to the program. I'm sure its very competitive, but noting the fact that a lot of us can't apply to this if we are taking ochem and physics.</p>
<p>On this page, under student enrollment, it mentions that out of 140 positions, they had 22 Humanities and Medicine, and 12 MD/PhD acceptances. I am not sure whether these 22 Humanities and Medicine acceptances. Although it doesn't tell me the number of applicants....Therefore, I can not figure out % acceptances into H&M.</p>
<p>Isn't Shades at Mt Sinai?</p>
<p>Mount</a> Sinai - MD Program</p>
<p>What surprised me the most, is that my friend mentioned that they only accept student who have categorically not been in Sciences. So, these students should not have taken Orgo or Physics.... Not sure why Bio is acceptable.</p>
<p>I am just flabbergasted that ANY medical school can give admission to students who have had no thorough background in Sciences, without the prerequisite of MCATs! Apparently, those who get accepted into this H&M program are required to enroll in the Summer and take Orgo and Physics.
What if they do poorly at that time?</p>
<p>It just seems like a lop-sided program to me.</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>The Humanities and Medicine Program provides a path to medical school that offers maximum flexibility in the undergraduate years for students to explore their interests in humanities and social sciences at top liberal arts colleges and research universities. The program assures highly motivated undergraduates admission to Mount Sinai upon successful completion of program requirements and graduation from their undergraduate program. MCAT's are neither required nor permitted to be taken.</p>
<p>An integral part of the program is an on-campus summer program at Mount Sinai, in which students participate after their junior year. This required 8-week summer program consists of classroom study in physics and organic chemistry along with an introduction to various clinical disciplines through weekly rotations.</p>
<p>Students apply to the Program in the first semester of their sophomore year. Juniors are considered on a space available basis. Ideal candidates for this highly selective program will have demonstrated an interest and ability in the sciences and math in high school, taken a minimum of science/math courses in college, and have personal attributes that show promise for becoming a compassionate and humanistic physician. We prefer applicants who have not enrolled in organic chemistry and we will require students to drop the second semester of organic chemistry if they enroll in the Program. In 2007, we received over 300 applications for the program. Thirty-four students were accepted. Their average first-year college GPA was 3.70 and their average combined SAT critical reading plus SAT math score was 1460. Students who have been accepted into the Program have the option of deferring their matriculation in medical school for one year after graduation from college. In addition to the required summer program, an optional pre-matriculation 6-week Summer Enrichment Program is available for those students who wish to expand their pre-med knowledge base.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>from the website</p>
<p>Wow. Kind of bizarro. It does highlight the push many med schools appear to have that to get more humanities kids into medicine.</p>
<p>Pharmagal:</p>
<p>Yes, I'm at Sinai. I can assure you that the program is totally legit. (It's probably a good illustration of thee ultimate uselessness of most of the courses currently required by medical schools for matriculation.) I believe that there are 25 or so spots available every year. I don't know how many applicants there are each year, but I can assume that the program is quite competitive.</p>
<p>Is there anything else you'd like to know about the program?</p>
<p>Thanks, NCG and Shades. I am just wondering though as to how they can be sure that the kids accepted into this Program actually even have the 'aptitude for Science' if they have are not supposed to have even attempted any Science courses prior to their admission?</p>
<p>I have seen plenty of students on CC that get a 4.0 and get into top Colleges and then bomb in lowest level of Orgo, Pharmacology or lowest level Biochemistry in Pharmacy schools. Medical education requires the very same Pharmacology, Anatomy, Phyisiology, Biochem, and Molecular Bio courses. </p>
<p>What if they select kids who are superb in arts but bomb in these foundational courses of Medical Science? I simply can not understand what kind of a doctor one can make if they do not understand basic Biochemistry (which needs understanding of Orgo) and MolBio?</p>
<p>Is the admission conditional that they have to show ability to at least get B's in their Summer of Science coursework at Sinai?</p>
<p>Otherwise, this is a great way for everyone who is extremely weak in Sciences to get their foot in the door!</p>
<p>Pharmagal:</p>
<p>As I understand it, the premise of the program is that if you're smart enough to write an excellent senior thesis on, say, dissent in Euripedes' plays, you're smart enough to do well in Biochem. The program is operating under the same basis as brokerage firms who hire engineering or chemistry majors - if you can do well in tough coursework, no matter what it is, you'll do well in just about anything.</p>
<p>I think the school also believes that "science" does not equal "medicine." (We've all seen the pre-meds who think that being the best bio major means they'll be the best doctor.) Success as an undergraduate in science does not automatically correlate to success as a physician. In addition, success as an undergraduate in the humanities does not mean a lack of aptitude in the sciences and math, anymore than success as an undergraduate in science means a lack of people skills. These are stereotypes about college majors and really shouldn't have any place in medical school admissions.</p>
<p>On a humorous note, there's a perception among some science PhDs that MDs are weak in the sciences. So, some people think doctors don't know as much about science as they should. :)</p>
<p>I want to dispel the notions that HuMed students are "extremely weak in Sciences" or that they "are not supposed to have even attempted any Science courses prior to their admission". From Mount</a> Sinai - How to Apply :</p>
<p>
[quote]
Program Requirements</p>
<ul>
<li>Humanities/Social Sciences major</li>
<li>1 year chemistry</li>
<li>1 year biology</li>
<li>8-week Summer Program at Mount Sinai between junior and senior years includes:
<ul>
<li>Organic Chemistry/Physics course</li>
<li>Clinical service rotations</li>
<li>Weekly ethics discussions</li>
<li>Free housing
[/quote]
</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>
<p>You'll see that they need to have one year of bio and chem underneath their belts to apply. Given the competitiveness of the program, if you bombed those two classes, you wouldn't be accepted.</p>
<p>There's also been some anecdotal evidence that HuMed students, on average, score higher on Step 1 than the average regularly admitted student.</p>
<p>I don't know about the ins and outs of the summer program, but I believe it operates on a pass-fail basis. I know of absolutely no one who "failed out" of the summer program. My impression is that, much like attending actual medical school, Sinai does everything it can to ensure its students succeed. Accepted HuMed students also have the option to attend the Summer Enrichment Program, which covers approximately the first third of Gross Anatomy and the first fourth of biochemistry, to get a leg up on the most challenging initial coursework.</p>
<p>A lot of HuMed students decide to do the program not because they hate math and science but because they just like something in the humanities more. The program allows them to spend their college years focused on things like Russian literature or painting and drawing instead of trying to juggle pre-med coursework and a non-science major.</p>
<p>Also, to correct something I said earlier in the thread, from Mount</a> Sinai - About Us :</p>
<p>
[quote]
In 2007, we received over 300 applications for the program. Thirty-four students were accepted. Their average first-year college GPA was 3.70 and their average combined SAT critical reading plus SAT math score was 1460.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So the acceptance rate in 2007 was a little over 10%. You could check the MSAR to see if that's higher or lower than the acceptance rate for regular admission.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info Shades.</p>
<p>If they take 1 yr of Bio and 1 yr Chem prior to being admitted, I can understand that they could potentially do well. Without any Chemistry or Bio, I think they would be in uncharted waters. I used to TA in Biochem in Grad school and am familiar with the difficulty of this course, which you may already know, is a core prereq for both graduate Pharmacology and Med students at Med schools.</p>
<p>What is the distribution of matriculants at Sinai? Say how many Indian Americans, Chinese American, and non-Jewish Americans vs Jewish Americans overall in matriculants at Sinai? </p>
<p>The impression I have so far is that Jewish applicant have an edge over others. Is this correct ?</p>
<p>It appears that Mt. Sinai does take HS coursework into account (as well as SAT scores). So, I would guess that they operate on the same basis as BS/MD programs (relying heavily on your HS achievements to project future performance). The only difference, of course, is that you apply after the 1st year of college so they have one year's worth of college performance to go on as well.</p>
<p>OK. But BS/MD programs ensure that the kids who get in have challenged themselves and completed AP Chem, AP Bio, Calculus etc successfully.
Many kids who are accepted into BS/MD have taken AP level Mol Bio, Anatomy and Physiology, Biochem in addition to all of the APs listed above.</p>
<p>Additionally, BS/MD admissions are conditional based on the matriculants maintaining a 3.5 GPA overall and in all Science courses. Many BS/MD programs require them to take MCATs too.</p>
<p>So, there is definite demonstration/maintance of potential prior to matriculati into MD programs. My concern with H&M is that kids who may not be able to handle Biochem, Org, Pharmacology or Physiology getting accepted in MD programs based on their ability in Humanities.</p>
<p>I know someone who is applying with C's in HS AP courses but was accepted in Humanities program at a top 10 school. </p>
<p>I just think that this option gives some people who are weak in Sciences to get their foot in the door while all other applicants (including BS/MDers) are persevering to excel in ALL coursework they undertake toward their Bachelors degree.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I think you're exaggerating the amount of AP sciences that BS/MDers take. For one thing, I don't think there are AP mol. bio or anatomy tests. Most high schools don't offer these kinds of courses. Most BS/MDers take the normal AP level courses in bio, physics, chem, and calculus. I'm sure Mt. Sinai is looking for the same.</p></li>
<li><p>BS/MD programs usually set the GPA requirements much lower than 3.5. There wouldn't be much of an advantage going the BS/MD route if you had a maintain a 3.5. The bar is usually set at 3.2 or 3.0. As the link shows, the average college GPA of someone accepted into Mt. Sinai's program is 3.7.</p></li>
<li><p>Clearly, Mt Sinai requests SAT scores because they list the average SAT score of matriculants into their program at 1460. It's not terribly high but someone with a 1460 SAT score isn't stupid either.</p></li>
<li><p>You still have to take a year of chem and bio as well as orgo/physics in the summer program. Your acceptance into the program is contingent on you being able to complete those requirements.</p></li>
<li><p>Let's face it, you don't need a 3.7 college science GPA to get through med school. Med schools can probably fill their classes with 3.3 science GPA students and still maintain a high graduation rate. Because of the current application situation, there are more applicants who can successfully get through med school than there are spots. Hence, Mt. Sinai is not overconcerned if the students they're accepting would've been 3.4 science GPA students because they would still get through med school. They're more concerned with drawing humanities majors to their school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Why do you think BS/MD programs set their GPA requirements at 3.2? Because after looking at the studies, they've found that students capable of 3.2 science GPA's and 27 MCAT scores are good enough to get through med school. Yes, 3.2/27 isn't good enough to get INTO med school and Mt. Sinai can certainly fill its classes with all of the 3.7/34 students applying the normal route. But, they're choosing to accept a bit of uncertainty in order to get first dibs on treasured applicants (in this case, humanities majors). Same principle as BS/MD programs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3.2 science GPA's and 27 MCAT scores are good enough to get through med school.
[/quote]
I'm actually totally surprised by this. My only concern would be will these bs/md students be competitive enough to do well on the boards usmle step 1,2,3 to get into good residency.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I used to TA in Biochem in Grad school and am familiar with the difficulty of this course, which you may already know, is a core prereq for both graduate Pharmacology and Med students at Med schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Err, I don't understand the relevance of this remark. Here at Sinai, the biochemistry that the MD students take is different than the biochemistry that the MD/PhD and PhD students take. The MD course is less rigorous than the MD/PhD and PhD one.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What is the distribution of matriculants at Sinai? Say how many Indian Americans, Chinese American, and non-Jewish Americans vs Jewish Americans overall in matriculants at Sinai?</p>
<p>The impression I have so far is that Jewish applicant have an edge over others. Is this correct ?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't have the demographic statistics. You could do a search on the Sinai website or take a look at the MSAR. Why are you so concerned about Jewish applicants?</p>
<p>Since I don't have access to applicant data, I have no way of knowing if Jewish students have an advantage. Why do you think that they would?</p>
<p>
[quote]
OK. But BS/MD programs ensure that the kids who get in have challenged themselves and completed AP Chem, AP Bio, Calculus etc successfully.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don't think Sinai looks for humanities majors who have challenged themselves?</p>
<p>
[quote]
My concern with H&M is that kids who may not be able to handle Biochem, Org, Pharmacology or Physiology getting accepted in MD programs based on their ability in Humanities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is a legitimate concern, but given HuMed students' long track records of success at Sinai and beyond, your concern has been proven unfounded.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I know someone who is applying with C's in HS AP courses but was accepted in Humanities program at a top 10 school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>People get accepted into college for all sorts of reasons that don't include academic excellence - being an excellent athlete, having a parent who went to that school, etc. What does this have to do with Sinai's HuMed program?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I just think that this option gives some people who are weak in Sciences to get their foot in the door while all other applicants (including BS/MDers) are persevering to excel in ALL coursework they undertake toward their Bachelors degree.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think you're wrong. People in the HuMed program have demonstrated through their transcripts that they've done well in ALL their coursework. Their transcripts include both high-school and college-level work - BS/MD students are accepted based only on their high school record. What more would you like HuMed students to do to prove their worthiness?</p>
<p>I certainly hope you are right.... but I will see how it goes with my friend's DC.</p>
<p>If the kid gets in despite having done poorly in APs, I doubt I will want to be treated for any ailments by a Sinai H&M MD.</p>
<p>NCG,
I agree most HS do not offer Mol Bio and A&P. But Blue Ribbon schools do. Most of the NJ Medical Science academys do.</p>
<p>I don't know about 3.2 being the cutoff for maintenance at any combined programs . Most have a 3.5 cutoff.</p>
<p>NCG - FYI below, a link from UMDNJ/TCNJ requirements page</p>
<p>Combined</a> BS/MS 7-Year Program FAQ.Biology.TCNJ</p>
<p>Q. What are the retention criteria for the 7-year program?</p>
<p>A. If you are admitted and participate, you must:</p>
<p>Complete the three-year undergraduate curriculum at TCNJ in an approved major earning a 3.5 (B+) cumulative and science average each semester.</p>