HY, NYU, Columbia Comparison

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>Hi all, I'm new on these forums but I wanted to get some more information on these law schools. I want to end up doing corporate law (M&A, maybe securities, public offerings, etc.) in NYC.</p>

<p>Out of the schools I listed, which is:</p>

<p>Best for someone who wants to work in "BigLaw"?</p>

<p>Has the most "business-type" students?</p>

<p>Best career center?</p>

<p>Most laid-back/least competitive?</p>

<p>Best social life/nightlife?</p>

<p>Smallest 1L workload (relatively)?</p>

<p>Best clinical programs?</p>

<p>Also, are there any particular distinguishing characteristics in choosing among these schools?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>(1) All excellent. (2) Harvard and Columbia more than Yale and NYU. (3) All fine. (4) Yale and NYU over Harvard and Columbia; not a coincidence that this is reversed from (2). (5) NYU, then Columbia, then Harvard, then Yale. (6) Yale, then NYU, then Columbia, then Harvard. (7) Yale, then don’t how to rank among the other three. (8) Admissions; see where you get in first and then decide.</p>

3

<p>For corporate law, the two schools that tend to feed the most students into that area of law are Harvard and Columbia, followed by NYU. Yale is not often thought of as a feeder school for corporate law, though there are plenty of Yalies who do practice corporate law.</p>

<p>Another thing to consider is class size (meaning your entire class, not your individual classes). Harvard, Columbia and NYU have very large entering classes (approximately 550, 400 and 450 students per class, respectively), while Yale is a particularly small law school (approximately 190 students per class). </p>

<p>In addition, fewer than 50% of Yale’s graduating classes typically go to work at law firms at all (where you would want to be if you wish to practice corporate law – at least for a while). That’s not to say that a Yale grad can’t find a law firm job, but it’s just not as much of an emphasis as it is at the other three law schools you listed.</p>

4

<p>The times they are a-changing…</p>

<p>Harvard has abolished grades. It remains to be seen how this will impact the school, but the hope is to make it a less competitive atmosphere. </p>

<p>My take:</p>

<ol>
<li>H,Y,C,NYU. I know, I know, Y is less geared towards big-law than any of the others. I still think that you’re better off with a degree from Y than from C or NYU if you are aiming for big-law. </li>
</ol>

<p>2)C,H,Y,NYU</p>

<p>3) I don’t know.</p>

<p>4) See note above. Columbia generally regarded as most competitive students.</p>

<p>5) How much $ do you have? It matters. There’s more to do in NY or Boston than New Haven, but it costs a lot. With no grades first semester, a lot of Yalies have more TIME to socialize. I know of some first year Y “small groups” that have 2-3 weekly get togethers. This seems to vary a lot too–depending on who is in your group. H may be in this camp now. </p>

<p>6) Y–then no idea. </p>

<p>7)NYU, Y, H, C</p>

<p>Differences: Much easier to get to know profs well if you’re in the middle of the class at Y than at any of the others. (And, even when there aren’t grades, some students just stand out.) </p>

<p>Y&H don’t give merit money; NYU & C do. Flip side: If your FAMILY isn’t well off, Y&H offer better need based fin aid. </p>

<p>H gives free 3rd year tuition to those who commit to going into public service (not clerkships) after graduation. </p>

<p>Y’s loan forgiveness program applies even if you decide to do something other than law. So, if you decided to become a journalist, for example, it would cover you. While NYU has the Root-Tilden-Kern scholarships, if you don’t get one, my understanding is that you won’t get loan forgiveness. I may be out of date on this, though…so check it out yourself. </p>

<p>I know H&Y both offer subsidies for people who want to spend their summers working for public interest or government. There are restrictions regarding who can get the $. I’m not sure that NYU or Columbia do this. Again, ask. </p>

<p>If you have an apartment and want to sub-let it during the summer, it’s easier to do that in NY or Boston than New Haven. There’s less on-campus housing at Y, but apartments–while far from cheap–are less expensive than in NY or Boston. </p>

<p>Have a SO who needs a job? Tough in this market, but near impossible in Boston.</p>

5

<p>Wow, thanks guys. This was really helpful and it seems like most people have similar perceptions on these points.</p>

6

<p>You are much better off for corporate law from Yale than from Harvard (i.e. firms will go deeper in the class). Yalies just generally have better things to do.</p>

<p>Look, for example at [Law</a> Firm Summer Associates 2006](<a href=“http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/]Law”>http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/). Over 50% better V5 placement for Yale, even though Harvard focuses more on BigLaw, Harvard focuses more on New York (where all the V5s are), and the top BigLaw destination from effete Yale is actually effete white shoe Debevoise (by choice), while Harvard strivers go for Davis Polk and Cravath.
Yale has a better reputation, but perhaps more importantly, it doesn’t have to place teeming hordes of people every year, like Harvard/Georgetown/Cooley etc.</p>

7

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<p>Actually, there’s a chart floating around on *********, pretty much showing that Debevoise is the most popular firm at HLS; YLS had something else (cannot remember whom… Sullivan Cromwell? Wachtell? mm).</p>

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<p>There really is no point in answering this question. Harvard, Yale, Columbia, and NYU all place excellently in Biglaw, and the differences in placement that are typically gleaned from sources like lawfirmaddict and the NLJ250 rankings can be chalked up to self-selection. Of the four schools, NYU is well known for its placement in public interest, for instance.</p>

<p>It’s worth noting the distinction between NYC Biglaw and Biglaw. If you think you might want to pursue a major market that isn’t NYC, or a secondary market, then you might want to consider not attending Columbia or NYU. With respect to NYU, I know from looking at our “OCI employer list” that the vast majority of firms hail from the tri-state area. D.C. firms are not as plentiful, to speak nothing of Chicago. There are maybe four or five Houston offices interviewing. Though you’d probably encounter much success through mailings (and having significant ties to the market you’re targeting), I think you’re almost definitely heading into NYC biglaw when you enter schools like NYU and CLS.</p>

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<p>Probably CLS.</p>

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<p>Impossible to compare if you don’t attend all schools. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if all those schools’ career centers were top notch.</p>

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<p>Probably NYU. People would say Yale, but many of my friends at YLS say it’s really competitive, but in different ways, which makes sense: eliminate one measure of achievement and over-achievers will find other ways to compare each other. </p>

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</p>

<p>Probably NYU. People think that NYU and CLS would tie this one because they’re both in NYC. Not so. CLS is located in Morningside Heights, which is not the most accessible area in Manhattan. NYU is straight up in the village, which has much to do and many metro connections out if you get sick of it. </p>

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<p>There’s no sense in answering this question. You’ll understand why when you actually finish 1L.</p>

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<p>I do not know this. I’ve heard excellent things about NYU, though</p>

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<p>Between NYU and CLS, NYU is known for being more laid-back and less “toolish.” CLS kids are often referred to as corporate gunners (and I know CLSers who will confirm this). One of my closest friends at CLS remarks that it was difficult for her to make friends, simply because of the way her classmates were. She recalled a time in which a study-group formed, and in which they “graciously” extended an invitation to her, basically because of her UG background.</p>

<p>I’ve heard nothing but good things about NYU.</p>

<p>YLS is just a weird place, but it seems pretty awesome. I know so many students there, and it seems amazing that despite their enormous ambition and genius, they have no idea what they want to do. I think it’s a good thing. How can one possibly know that they want to do lit straight out of law school (assuming they were not paralegals or whatever)?</p>

<p>HLS is cool; it has elements of CLS and YLS. The CLS culture comes in because of HLS’s corporate dominance; the YLS culture is there because of its academic prowess. I do think the class size is a bit too large for a no-grading scheme, so it’d be great to see how things pan out at OCI and for academic job placement. </p>

<p>A school not to be underestimated is UChicago: They have excellent NYC and Chicago placement (in my opinion, rivaling the likes of CLS and NYU). Their strength in placing well in two major markets makes it a much more flexible, in my opinion. In this recession, though, we are already seeing some regionalization among major firms; for example Kirkland NY is not coming to Chicago (if I’m not mistaken), and Kirkland Chicago is not coming to NYU/CLS.</p>

8

<p>By number of associates:</p>

<p>Yale: Debevoise</p>

<p>Harvard: Ropes</p>

<p>Stanford: Latham</p>

<p>Columbia: Skadden</p>

<p>Chicago: Sidley</p>

<p>NYU: Cleary</p>

<p>Michigan: Kirkland</p>

<p>UVA: Latham</p>

<p>Penn: Morgan Lewis</p>

<p>Boalt: Latham</p>

<p>Duke: Simpson Thacher</p>

<p>Northwestern: Kirkland</p>

<p>Cornell: Simpson Thacher</p>

<p>Georgetown: Skadden</p>

9

<p>Woops. I guess I got em mixed up. My bad.</p>