<p>I do not mean to offend anyone with this post. But I do have a curiosity since I have two more children to go through the application process. When I see students who have applied to five, six or even all eight of these schools, my first thought is "trophy hunting." Most of these schools are quite different from each other, other than the fact that they are members of the "Ivy League." I also understand that college admissions today are a "crapshoot." Understanding the last point, that it is necessary to apply to a good number of schools because of the "seeming" random nature of acceptances, whether it is to check FA packages or just to boost one's probability of admission, does it make logical sense to apply to most or all of the Ivy League schools, other than for "trophy hunting" reasons? Inarticulate and wordy (;)), but am I getting my question across?</p>
<p>IMO, Dartmouth and Columbia are polar opposites, and only share a common sports league. So, applying to both makes sense only for someone whose goal is the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Columbia was the only Ivy league school my D was interested in. She's been waitlisted there and UChicago. I am wondering how many of the multiple-Ivy applicants posting re: their Columbia waitlist or admission may ultimately take a pass on Columbia. She was very lucky and was accepted at 6 other schools, so she has other strong options.</p>
<p>In my son's case, he did apply to several but not all Ivies. I think if he had read more thoroughly about the schools he might have ruled a couple out. But, after all, he is a teenager whose focus can change drastically and he doesn't have as much time as I do for this sort of research. It is so easy to send multiple applications nowadays with the Common App. For Harvard, it is just the click of a button and a charge card number.</p>
<p>Based on his results, I do think that there is little rhyme or reason for the schools for which he was rejected and accepted.</p>
<p>Hi all. My son applied to three Ivy League schools and two other schools. He chose those three Ivies (H, P and Brown) in part because I wanted him to. He attended Harvard summer school and enjoyed it, his Dad and grandfather went to Princeton, and I liked Brown because its close to where we live. So it isn't all trophy hunting despite the schools being so different from each other.</p>
<p>Mom of new Princetonian (is this a word?)</p>
<p>I agree that when someone applies to all 8 Ivy League schools, it looks like trophy hunting or perhaps just a misguided approach to applying to college. I don't think it's a good idea just to throw out 8 applications there to see what sticks.<br>
I would, however, give kids more credit than that most of the time, even when an assortment of schools looks a little odd to an outsider. In the example above, there may be very sound reasons why someone would like both Columbia and Dartmouth, or at least would think they would as a high school senior. Perhaps there is a coach at the schools who has shown an interest. Perhaps there is family nearby. Perhaps there is a particular department at each school that is a strong draw. My kids had an assortment of schools that would look odd to some people, but each of them could justify each school's presence on the list and was genuinely interested and excited about it. One thing that neither of my kids cared about was the urban vs. rural vs. suburban variation. That was a factor that just didn't matter. For some people, it's high importance.</p>
<p>
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Mom of new Princetonian (is this a word?)
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</p>
<p>It is indeed. And congratulations, from an old Princetonian!</p>
<p>I applied to about 2/3 of the ivies. I ruled a few out (Yale, Penn, and Columbia) because of their campuses. But like the OP said, even if you are a stellar student, you don't know for sure where you will be admitted. However, it is likely you will get in at least one of the ivies. The ivies are similar enough that if one appeals to you, probably you would be happy at several of them.</p>
<p>My son applied to all 8 Ivies last year, got into 4. Wanted to be in an environment where other kids SAT scores are closest to his (also applied to MIT and Stanford etc). There is a school of thought that believes in playing up, you improve your game by being with strong folks. Since he was interested in science all these schools had good undergrad programs; some of us don't value geography, climate, dining halls, frats, location etc in "fit". The Ivies also have signaling effects and some of us believe that since they have done the screening, Ivy grads will have better prospects in future. I know someone will pull out a study that says where you went to college doesn't matter but that's the past. I believe in the future where you went will matter. Also a bit or more than a bit of trophy hunting, not a bad reason, it is a signaling phenomenon.</p>
<p>Sorry I disagree. Applying to all ivies is not at all trophy hunting. If someone has stats that are above majority of admitted student but chances are that one need to compare financial aid. Admission is a total crapshoot. In addition, there is no guarantee that a student can be admitted to one let alone all ivies. There are no guarantees. My daughter attended a top 10 prep school. She applied only to HYP and was admitted in all 3 but before decision came we did not know she will be admitted to even one let alone all three. Even though her guidance counselor told her she has a great shot but nothing is guaranteed so she needs to apply and see. When she was admitted early to one college, she did drop other application so her friends can apply but still waited for financial aid decision. </p>
<p>Harvard financial aid offer was the best. Had she not applied to Harvard, that we would have paid more money. Maybe $2000 is not a lot of money for some but it is a big chunk for us. If one applies to all ivies yet there stats are not in the ball park there may be trophy hunting but still college admission is crapshoot. No guarantees period.</p>
<p>When I applied to colleges I wanted to be around similar students first and foremost. That was the baseline consideration, after this fit was critical. I wasn't about to choose a school I liked less for marginal prestige or a better "program," but a top school was absolutely important. </p>
<p>I could honestly see myself at any Ivy besides Columbia. The way I looked at schools (however flawed) was that within a certain range I would choose for fit. I don't understand when students try and choose between schools of such similar prestige and influence levels (i.e. Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Penn, Brown, etc) based on which one is "better." I want to yell out, "They're all the same, choose the one you like!!"</p>
<p>But alternatively I'd also be hard pressed to choose a school I might like more if I felt it was not as strong a school.</p>
<p>"Most of these schools are quite different from each other, other than the fact that they are members of the "Ivy League.""</p>
<p>I don't agree. If you're a student who enjoys different environments (city vs. rural) and who wants to major in a popular subject that's offered everywhere, and who would take a wide variety of courses whether or not the school requires you to...then these 8 schools start to look like they have a lot in common. They all have medium-sized undergraduate student bodies (they're neither Ohio State nor Swarthmore); they all have excellent liberal arts programs in a wide variety of subjects, so students can experiment with confidence; they all attract a national and international student body; student life does not revolve around sports at any of them; they all have excellent extracurricular arts and service programs; they are all well thought of by employers and graduate schools.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that every kid should apply to all 8, just that I don't think they are necessarily trophy hunting if they do.</p>
<p>Elite Colleges Reporting Record Lows in Admission
New York Times
By ALAN FINDER
Published: April 1, 2008
The already crazed competition for admission to the nations most prestigious universities and colleges became even more intense this year, with many logging record low acceptance rates.</p>
<p>Harvard College, for example, offered admission to only 7.1 percent of the 27,462 high school seniors who applied or, put another way, it rejected 93 of every 100 applicants, many with extraordinary achievements, like a perfect score on one of the SAT exams. Yale College accepted 8.3 percent of its 22,813 applicants. Both rates were records.</p>
<p>Columbia College admitted 8.7 percent of its applicants, Brown University and Dartmouth College 13 percent, and Bowdoin College and Georgetown University 18 percent also records. </p>
<p>We love the people we admitted, but we also love a very large number of the people who we were not able to admit, said William R. Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions and financial aid at Harvard College.</p>
<p>Some colleges said they placed more students on their waiting lists than in recent years, in part because of uncertainty over how many admitted students would decide to enroll. Harvard and Princeton stopped accepting students through early admission this academic year; that meant that more than 1,500 students who would have been admitted in December were likely to have applied to many elite schools in the regular round.</p>
<p>Many factors contributed to the tightening of the competition at the most selective colleges, admissions deans and high school counselors said, among them demographics. The number of high school graduates in the nation has grown each year over the last decade and a half, though demographers project that the figure will peak this year or next, which might reduce the competition a little.</p>
<p>Other factors were the ease of online applications, expanded financial aid packages, aggressive recruiting of a broader range of young people, and ambitious students applying to ever more colleges. </p>
<p>The eight Ivy League colleges mailed acceptance and rejection letters on Monday to tens of thousands of applicants. Students could learn the fate of their applications online beginning at 5 p.m. on Monday, so three of the colleges said they were not ready to make public their admissions data. But the expectation was that they would also turn out to have been more competitive than ever.</p>
<p>For the schools that are perceived to have the most competitive admissions processes, there has been this persistent rise in applications, said Jeffrey Brenzel, dean of undergraduate admissions at Yale.</p>
<p>Ten years ago, slightly fewer than 12,000 students applied to Yale, compared with the 22,813 who applied this year, Mr. Brenzel said. Yales admittance rate the proportion of applicants offered admission was nearly 18 percent in 1998, more than double the rate this year.</p>
<p>Were really happy with the class, Mr. Brenzel said of the students offered admission. On a day like today its also easy to be aware of the incredible number of fantastic students who you have to turn away, because you know they would be successful here.</p>
<p>At Harvard, as at Yale, the applicant pool included an extraordinary number of academically gifted students. More than 2,500 of Harvards 27,462 applicants scored a perfect 800 on the SAT critical reading test, and 3,300 had 800 scores on the SAT math exam. More than 3,300 were ranked first in their high school class.</p>
<p>Admissions deans and high school guidance counselors said they spent hours at this time of year reminding students who had been put on waiting lists or rejected entirely that there were other excellent colleges on their lists and that rejection was often about the overwhelming numbers, rather than their merits as individuals.</p>
<p>I know why it matters so much, and I also dont understand why it matters so much, said William M. Shain, dean of admissions and financial aid at Bowdoin. Where we went to college does not set us up for success or keep us away from it.</p>
<p>Columbia is ridiculous for seperating out the college. Its like SEAS is a stepchild during the admissions cycle. Columbia's rate is 10% when you combine them (like every school does).</p>
<p>I’m not sure it’s all trophy hunting, because after all, in the end you can only go to one school and how many people go around bragging about college acceptances once senior year of HS ends?</p>
<p>I think there is a very strong mindset out there that goes like this: “This kid is really really smart, a genius even; s/he wants to be challenged intellectually and wants to be surrounded by equally brilliant students and professors. Only a certain level of school will satisfy that desire, so s/he must only go to a school like that.” </p>
<p>Some people feel that when it comes to fit, that is the only fit that matters – being around equally brilliant people. </p>
<p>I’ve known people who feel that if their kid doesn’t get into a school that fits that requirement, they would be better off taking a year off and trying again. Thanks heavens one kid I know was accepted early to a top school a few years ago, because this kid was planning on applying to 18 schools – all reaches – and one safety. The only criteria was selectivity/elite standing – nothing else mattered.</p>
<p>Before you kill the messenger, let me add that I don’t agree with this philosophy. For many, many reasons. </p>
<p>And one of those reasons is that I’ve been on every Ivy campus, and they are very different. It’s hard for me to imagine that Dartmouth and Columbia could work for the same person. But obviously, some people feel differently.</p>
<p>Of course, if they do happen to get in everywhere (remember that kid last year? From Texas, I think), then making a decision becomes very difficult. </p>
<p>Oh, and I disagree with the poster who thinks that prestige will matter even more in the future. I think prestige will matter less, since it is clear that the quality of many schools is rising as the quality of their student body strengthens. Schools that I considered “safeties” 30 years ago are considered prestigious today.</p>
<p>The one thing that all those universities have in common is that they are all prestigious. And though I know some people like to live in a fantasy world and pretend prestige does not matter, it does. Prestige of your alma mater can have vast and significant causes in later pursuits in your life.</p>
<p>Secondly, the large majority of students that attend those schools are the best and brightest. Many students seek an intensely academic environment which is present in those top schools.</p>
<p>So i don't think anything is wrong with applying to those top ivy league schools</p>
<p>I agree with Hanna -- the colleges are way more similar than they are different, even Columbia vs. Dartmouth, in most important EDUCATIONAL respects (including peer relationships). The rest is window dressing, to some extent.</p>
<p>That said, the same is true with respect to any number of other colleges, too. Applying to all eight Ivy League colleges does not look like a rational application strategy to me; it looks like an unthoughtful, intellectually lazy one. I think it is true that very strong, very ambitious students face a dilemma: all their "match" colleges are reaches, and have an element of randomness in their admissions. If a student is going to apply to all eight Ivies, that pretty much demands that he or she apply to at least 12-13 colleges (probably more), and at that point the student is contributing in some significant way to the overall problem of admissions randomness.</p>
<p>I'll also admit to some grumpiness with students who are accepted SCEA at Yale or Stanford and who persist in applying to all of the Ivies and equivalents. A few, for financial aid purposes, or because you want to look at Harvard/Princeton if you have a chance, doesn't bother me. But a whole bunch -- that just looks like pure trophy hunting to me. I can't imagine their classmates respect them for it. A classmate of one of my kids did that. He was quite popular, a leader, and much respected, but not for his admissions strategy, which was generally seen as exposing his arrogant, jerky side.</p>
<p>Columbia's name has come up a couple times here. Is there something about it that seems to set it more apart from the others? I don't see it's name come up here on CC as often as some of the others. Just curious.</p>
<p>It's not trophy-hunting. It's called seeing if you can get into these schools based on your individual merit. You have pride in yourself, yes, but you're also curious as to see how and what the colleges think about you. </p>
<p>My two cents.</p>
<p>My son applied to 14 colleges, all 8 Ivies. All the Ivies are similar in their educational mission and offerings, their international student body, quality of faculty, (even if an undergrad never sets his or her eye on a noted prof these scholars set the tone of the departments) etc. Often in America "fit" is code for hedonistic aspects, location and setting, quality of dorms, etc. Applying to schools whose student bodies have SAT scores at or above your child's is a rational strategy. It is like a chess prodigy with a master's rating at age 7 wanting to play grandmasters and not at the local Barnes and Noble chess club.</p>
<p>My son got a perfect score on the SAT and 5s on 11 APs but we anticipated an anti Asian bias and so he embarked on this strategy. What is wrong here?</p>
<p>I do believe in the future prestige will matter more. As all the schools are improving in quality, so too the ones at the top, relatively the gap is nearly the same as it was in the 60s.</p>